Can one be punished for it ?
Yes.
I consider that a crime, and didn't discriminate between the venial and mortal, so to speak.
M
The Rise and Fall of the Plastic Bag
- Thread starter Joonsy
- Start date
Can one be punished for it ?
Yes.
I consider that a crime, and didn't discriminate between the venial and mortal, so to speak.
M
One could argue the same about many things, but I think there is a point of principle at stake here - I don't believe in governments regulating things they have no business regulating. If we go down the "tough if it costs everyone" we can - and perhaps should - apply that to other things - drinks cans, fast food wrappers, newspapers (ever seen the newspapers blowing around London or Manchester? Those free papers cause huge pollution.
Lets just charge everyone for things a few people do - its easier than actually tackling the offenders after all isn't it
in full agreement with above statement.
and the vast majority will not change their attitudes in the slightest, pay the 5p and carry on regardless, and that is why the proposal for ''environmental'' reasons is disingenuous ('note' noticed will abide by forum guidelines
)Well we use Hessian bags until we run out of nappy bags then we do a large shop and re-use the free nappy bags they give out free with every shop in supermarkets. Will they include this 5p price increase in nappy bags in the national inflation figures?
Was listening to something about it on auntie Beeb. Either R4 or tv. Interviewed ppl from Ireland and the comments were "if we need bags we just pay the 5p and use the bags, it's just what you have to pay. isn't going to stop me using them", etc. It may have reduced use but a long way from stopping. Lidl and Aldi I believe have charged for bags for years. I've almost never seen anyone leaving with their shopping in anything other than Lidl/Aldi bags. Just how effective is it going to be? Will it really stop plastic reaching the natural world? Support your flawed laws all you want but ppl as a whole need.to change not small pockets here and there.
Why don't we go to the option for plastic or paper bag like USA I think?.As a kid we shopped in our local superstore, a Safeways, which offered shoppers use of the boxes the good came in to take their shopping home in. They also used paper bags instead of plastic. Why not take that approach?
Was listening to something about it on auntie Beeb. Either R4 or tv. Interviewed ppl from Ireland and the comments were "if we need bags we just pay the 5p and use the bags, it's just what you have to pay. isn't going to stop me using them", etc. It may have reduced use but a long way from stopping. Lidl and Aldi I believe have charged for bags for years. I've almost never seen anyone leaving with their shopping in anything other than Lidl/Aldi bags. Just how effective is it going to be? Will it really stop plastic reaching the natural world? Support your flawed laws all you want but ppl as a whole need.to change not small pockets here and there.
Why don't we go to the option for plastic or paper bag like USA I think?.As a kid we shopped in our local superstore, a Safeways, which offered shoppers use of the boxes the good came in to take their shopping home in. They also used paper bags instead of plastic. Why not take that approach?
It's simple, don't use plastic bags and it won't cost you a ha'penny....or 5p neither
It's not an infringement of rights, and it's not going to bring down society
It will have a knock on effect on the sheer overwhelming volume of plastic bags folks use. That's it.
Environmentally that's a good thing for charities it's a good thing.
Tough on those who want to rant about the inquities of the scheme, but to be perfectly honest, very few folks are bothered about being charged for the bags, they'll just be suddenly aware that the bags do cost something and hopefully learn to make do with less, or learn to be prepared to do without.
Life is too short for this, it really is.
The Victorians despaired about the sheer volume of refuse they disposed of, and they did have a fire in every house. Archaeologically we'll be known as the 'carrier bag and plastic bottle people'
Terminally sad.
M
It's not an infringement of rights, and it's not going to bring down society
It will have a knock on effect on the sheer overwhelming volume of plastic bags folks use. That's it.
Environmentally that's a good thing
for charities it's a good thing.Tough on those who want to rant about the inquities of the scheme, but to be perfectly honest, very few folks are bothered about being charged for the bags, they'll just be suddenly aware that the bags do cost something and hopefully learn to make do with less, or learn to be prepared to do without.
Life is too short for this, it really is.
The Victorians despaired about the sheer volume of refuse they disposed of, and they did have a fire in every house. Archaeologically we'll be known as the 'carrier bag and plastic bottle people'
Terminally sad.
M
in full agreement with above statement.
and the vast majority will not change their attitudes in the slightest, pay the 5p and carry on regardless, and that is why the proposal for ''environmental'' reasons is disingenuous ('note' noticed will abide by forum guidelines
Joonsy are you so set in your attitude that you fail to read what others type? Because in that case I'll just give in and not bother. More than one person with experience of a bag charge has reported that it DOES WORK. Enough of the 'vast majority' change their ways so that the effects are noticeable. But you still keep harping on that it won't have an effect.
Lets just charge everyone for things a few people do - its easier than actually tackling the offenders after all isn't it
If only a few people do it, only a few people will be charged. And those people would therefore seem to fit your requirement of 'offenders'.
I think people in this thread just have a very fundamental disagreement about the nature of human freedoms and on the government's right to infringe upon them. Again, I don't think anyone is opposed to the government going after people who litter or dispose of these bags inappropriately, but those of us who believe that any infringement on human freedoms should be narrowly tailored and viewed with skepticism, have an issue with a policy that lumps together people and infringes on their freedoms regardless of their culpability in the underlying offense. Whether or not you believe the freedom which is being infringed is important or significant is besides the point.
My point is that everyone gets charged for a bag because only a few people litter. I find that does not conform to my definition of "fair"
I don't think the problem is the littering. I think the problem is the vast number produced and what to do with them.
I could argue it's unfair that I have to pay taxes for schools when I have no children, I'm happy however to do so as I prefer it to the alternative of uneducated children running around the streets all day. Life is not fair, it's not fair that some people are ugly and horrid whilst I am a handsome devil at whose feet women throw themselves on a daily basis. I've just learned to live with the tragedy of it all.
Hmmm - I'm not sure that is the argument I have read here - people appear to be specifically mentioning litter.
If the argument is that we should not produce them, then surely simply banning them is more effective? I would argue though that the wrappings of individual food items contained within the bag are a far greater problem (often with three layers of packaging).
It seems ill thought out to me whatever the motivation. Life is indeed not fair - but silly, poorly thought through legislation need not be silently accepted either.
If the argument is that we should not produce them, then surely simply banning them is more effective? I would argue though that the wrappings of individual food items contained within the bag are a far greater problem (often with three layers of packaging).
It seems ill thought out to me whatever the motivation. Life is indeed not fair - but silly, poorly thought through legislation need not be silently accepted either.
Actually there's always been a bag charge. The stores have to buy them so even when the bags were "free" the prices of the goods sold were high enough to cover the cost. So my question is, now that there is an OPEN bag charge, will the price of the goods be reduced accordingly?
And I (like most other shoppers here) usually take that item that's already on Styrofoam and cello-wrapped from the meat locker and place it into yet another cello bag before putting it into the shopping cart. Less chance of the blood leaking onto the apples.
There's been a few comments regarding the long term pollution effects of the plastic bags (as opposed to the simple cosmetic problem of litter) It's interesting to note that the plastic bags big advantage is that it doesn't decompose! There's no toxicity; in a thousand years it'll still be just a plastic bag. (caveat being that they're properly contained and not left to float around choking fish)
On the other hand, those reusable bags need to be washed from time to time, putting detergents into the wastewater stream. And they do pollute.
On the other hand, those reusable bags need to be washed from time to time, putting detergents into the wastewater stream. And they do pollute.
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Not sure about that, a Chemistry professor I know was telling me a year or so ago that although these bags stay intact in form, they also leach some very nasty chemicals over time, most of which end up in either the sea or the water table. A few would make no difference, but with the countless billions of them that there are...
Not in Wales as the money from sales goes to charity, not sure what the English are doing though. 'Free' bags will also have been factored in to profit margins, just another operational cost, bit like the greeter in Disney stores or the person sweeping the car park.
My first real job was with Safeway back in 1973 and the brown paper bags were free but the plastic bags were charged, most shoppers went for a plastic bag. 'Free' plastic bags are comparatively new so I don't see why people are moaning. Take your own bags...people in Wales have really started to do so which is reflected in the massive drop in bag sales.
Iwas being a bit sarcastic about the price reductions Rik. TBH plastic bags are relatively new here too (they've only been popular the last 20 years or so) But even the older paper bags were a cost to be factored for the shopkeepers and grocers.
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