The Rise and Fall of the Plastic Bag

[xylaria]

I moved to wales about 6 months before the bag tax was brought in. It has reduced the visible blown waste in roadside hegdes. Saying that the locals have "tidy" as a big cultural concept. You still get maccy D wrappers 20 miles up a mountian road, but a burst binbag would get swept up very quickly by someone "tidy".

 

[spiritwalker]

why stop at bags i cant think of any item made of plastic that cant be made from natural materials... sure things would cost more but it might make people look after them again and the good old repair shops would be back in business...

what gets on my nerves worse is dog turds in bags dangling from trees...pure insanity why go to the trouble to bag it all if your going to do that?

 

[wingstoo]

why stop at bags i cant think of any item made of plastic that cant be made from natural materials... sure things would cost more but it might make people look after them again and the good old repair shops would be back in business...

I am sure they could... Here is a list I found

Think of:
1.- remote control (mainly made out of plastic)
2.- controllers for a video game system
3.- the hose you use to water your plants
4.- the buttons of your washing machine are surely made out of plastic
5.- shampoo bottles
6.- handles of your fridge, most of them are plastic
7.- the grips of cooking pans are mainly plastic
8.- light switches are made of plastic
9.- closures and lids of several bottles
10.- buttons of your cloths
11.- your clothes (polyesther) are made out of PET plastic
12.- the soles of your tennis shoes
13.- the insulating plastic that covers all of the appliances wires and connections
14.- the keyboard of your computer is mainly plastic
15.- the mouse you use to point in your computer is plastic mainly
16.- your telephone is mainly plastic
17.- the case of your tv and other appliances is made out of plastic
18.- a waste basket in the kitchen can also be plastic
19.- the bottled water you drink is bottles in plastic
20.- the bread you eat is probably packed in a plastic bag....

Most could be made from natural materials, just wondering what a laptop would look like if made from natural materials instead of plastic

 

[Goatboy]

I am sure they could... Here is a list I found


Most could be made from natural materials, just wondering what a laptop would look like if made from natural materials instead of plastic

They help you solve knotty problems.

 

[Jared]

ASUS Ecobook laptop was made with some bamboo a few years back.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

I can remember edible underwear.
Environmentally friendly or what?


:sad6:

 

[santaman2000]

I seem to remember biodegradable carrier bags maybe 20 - 25 years ago. They felt 'orrible in the hand but they were...biodegradable.
I have some green rubble sacks made of the same stuff from Poundland and they feel 'orrible and guess what? They're biodegradable.

I grew up with "biodegradable" bags. They were just the ordinary brown paper bags that plastic all but replaced. They felt fine; they looked fine; they held more. BUT! They were potential carriers of insect eggs, particularly roach eggs that could later infest your house. Despite that all stores still ask. "paper or plastic" and the answer is about half and half among those that don't bring reusable bags.

The problem with reusables is that they rarely (if ever) get washed and they harbor germs that transfer to each subsequent purchase.

 

[santaman2000]

But then there would be something else to worry about... before carrier bags it was ?

Glass and aluminum.

 

[santaman2000]

A empty aluminium can is around 15 grams. So ~66 cans per kg.
Scrap aluminium prices seem to be 50-60p per kg.

So each can is worth less than a penny......

And yet there's a thriving industry built around recycling them. There's a trailer every few miles (here at least) paying out money to people who bag them and bring them in.

 

[spiritwalker]

I am sure they could... Here is a list I found


Most could be made from natural materials, just wondering what a laptop would look like if made from natural materials instead of plastic

i dont see any of those items as essential and most could be made with metal, rubber, wood, silicon etc just because things are made of plastic doesnt mean they have to be its just cheaper...
the only thing i could think of that may be essential is heart valves but possibly pigs valves will do the job at some point if not already.

 

[wingstoo]

I grew up with "biodegradable" bags. They were just the ordinary brown paper bags that plastic all but replaced. They felt fine; they looked fine; they held more. BUT! They were potential carriers of insect eggs, particularly roach eggs that could later infest your house. Despite that all stores still ask. "paper or plastic" and the answer is about half and half among those that don't bring reusable bags.

The problem with reusables is that they rarely (if ever) get washed and they harbor germs that transfer to each subsequent purchase.

Also, from what I have read a few years back, they are not as "environmentally friendly" as plastic bags...Sure they can rot down eventually, be used as fire lighting material, but the manufacturing process is not as clean as using the waste product of fuel extraction as plastic bags do.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/paper-plastic.htm

Yes the littering with both items is a problem as well...

 

[Toddy]

Plain simple cotton or polycotton bags work fine. They even go into the washing machine with the dusters and floor cloths on a boil wash.
All of the sewing forums have patterns for them, they are made and sold for cancer charities, school funds, and other good causes.
Make them from old shirts, sheets, pillowslips, etc., or 99p a metre remnants. They are available in plain unbleached cotton with printing on them for every event under the sun, Uni and College open days and the like.

Commercially made nylon ones that fold up into their own pouch or handle are very good, though more expensive usually. Even the menfolks don't object to carrying those

I freely admit I use carrier bags to line the kitchen bin, but if I don't have any I just use newspaper and wash the bin out every time it's emptied.

I think our 'disposable' society is the root cause of all the issues here. We have never had so much, and valued so little in our rush to 'save time'
Our supermarket grocery habit has had a huge knock on effect of massive sealed packagings. Our bins are full of it, even from fruit and veg. It's ridiculous the amount of waste every household generates. Our local council supplies four bins to every house. One for plastic/metal/paper recycling, one for glass, one for organic (or you can have a compost bininstead ) and one for everything else. Forty houses in this street alone, makes for 160 bins.....multiply that across the country and it's apparant that cutting down on carrier bag use is a tiny, tiny part of the problem.
It's a start though.

I know it would be expensive, but surely it's not beyond mortal wit to create totally biodegradeable packaging ?

Cellophane use instead of polythene would be a start, like the paper bread bags from Lidl's with the cellophane panel so the checkout folks can see the contents.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Kmk1UsmwHIfe4QTuhoHwAw

cheers,
Toddy

 

[rik_uk3]

Our council has been pushing recycling for a few years now. One clear bag for paper, another clear bag for glass/plastic/metal, green food bin with lockable lid, small green bin for indoors and a large black bin for anything else. It means we now have three pedal bins in the kitchen plus the small green food bin; its a pain in the buttocks to be honest but I suppose its the 'way forward'. You have to wash empty tins too. I'm giving serious thought to an under sink grinder thingy for food waste.

I agree about the excess packaging, its crazy at times.

Back to the original bag question I must admit I was a lazy git and we'd end up throwing away bags full of other bags but I bought a load of the 75p Iceland fold up bags and we've been using them for months now. Its not the fact we now get charged for bags (except bags from the pharmacy with prescription meds, they are free) but I feel a bit of a knob standing line and having to ask for bags...bit of a guilt thing I suppose.

 

[Joonsy]

What I was trying to get at by opening this thread is that I think it is disingenuous for the government to claim there is an environmental problem with plastic bags but then stick a mandatory charge on them, if they held genuine beliefs that they were such a big problem and genuinely wanted to solve the problem they could do so instantly by an outright ban, an instant solution and problem solved. some countries have already done this. I personally believe it is simply yet another money grabbing idea which is backed up by the proposal of ‘’we HOPE any money raised by the sale of plastic bags will be donated to charity’’ the word ‘’HOPE’’ only enforces my suspicions of it being another money-raising con-trick, in other words it is up to the supermarkets wether they donate any money to charity or not and if they do how big a percentage will be their own choice, they could donate as little as 1% or as much as 100% or even donate nothing at all if they so wished, it would be their choice, there is something disingenuous about using the word ‘hope’. It is my belief that that many people will stop buying plastic bags (as proven by the Wales contributors) but many more people will just continue to pay the 5p and carry on regardless, and therein lies the problem because the government knows that some people will never change and even a small proportion of the population nationwide paying a small fee of 5p will actually raise a large revenue for someone, who is that ‘someone’, it is the supermarkets of course who collect the money at point of sale and then according to government proposal ‘hopefully’ donate a percentage of their own choice to a charity of their own choice , of course they could just snub the proposal and just keep all the money instead if they so wished as it is not mandatory. They are of course entitled to charge for their bags and we have no right to expect them to be given away for free in the first place but they have done so for many years which no doubt the idea originally started out as a type of ‘service’ to help ease and encourage our shopping habits in the same way as the shopping trolly. And of the money raised and collected by supermarkets then somewhere along the line there will be a proportion of revenue/tax payable to the government, and however small or large that amount may be it will be rather more than none at all, only one 5p bag has to be sold to raise more money than thousands costing nothing. If the desire to stop the environmental damage by plastic bags is genuine, there is a very simple solution which guarantees success, is not selective and impacts on everyone equally both those who act in the interests of the environment and those who do not, simply end production of plastic bags, however call me a cynic which I happily accept but i suggest that environmental reasons are not the motives of the 5p charge and the plastic bag is just another target to raise money from.. --- Yes it’s not the most important topic, just my view and I’ve said my piece.

 

[Nice65]

a number of countries already have an outright ban on them , it is the only responsible solution.

More responsible than tying a couple of knots in them and putting them in the bin?

 

[Goatboy]

I have a couple of the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil shopping bags. Folds into it's own inbuilt bag, very light 48g's and strong enough to fill with stones and it wont rip. Because it can fit on the keys you can always have one. Also handy for foraging and the likes. LINK

Super-light 48g
30D Nylon Siliconised Cordura for increased strength and packability
Bar-tacked reinforced seams
Key tab loop
Reduce your environmental footprint and say no to plastic bags - carry this strong, ultra-light and super-compact Ultra-Sil[SUP]TM[/SUP] Shopping Bag.
The tiny pack size fits easily onto your key ring or in your purse - don't attempt your shopping without one!

 

[Joonsy]

More responsible than tying a couple of knots in them and putting them in the bin?

yes, no bag nothing to dispose.

 

[rik_uk3]

yes, no bag nothing to dispose.

Joonsy, your trying to get the average person to agree with your personal agenda on the bag thing, it won't happen mate.

If England is like Wales and cuts down on bags by 70% to 90% don't you think that a step in the right direction? In fact a massive step in the right direction I'd have thought?

As for an outright ban it won't happen and nor should it happen IMHO.

 

[Rod Paradise]

Been a few pointed out that charging a tax on the bags works where it's been introduced (maybe more than 5p though) - but still the debate goes on "it's money making, ban bags instead" etc etc.

I had a great holiday this summer, I drove from Scotland to the Shannon & West Clare in Ireland. In the country where they charge for bags the level of litter was the least, in the country next door to it, the litter levels were noticably higher, but less than in Scotland. So I'm all for it, not as a money maker, not because the bags are the major part of litter, but because it means people are forced to think for a second about what they're doing/chucking away. You can't enforce cleanliness, but if you can make not littering the norm for whatever reason there will be a positive impact.

 

[Joonsy]

Joonsy, your trying to get the average person to agree with your personal agenda on the bag thing, it won't happen mate.

If England is like Wales and cuts down on bags by 70% to 90% don't you think that a step in the right direction? In fact a massive step in the right direction I'd have thought?

As for an outright ban it won't happen and nor should it happen IMHO.

not trying to get anyone to agree i have merely forwarded my opinion, your comment ''don't you think'' suggests it is you trying to get me to agree with you actually, i don't and would suggest 70% and 90 % is actually less than 100% which would be the number if no bags at all were produced.