The perfect Bushcraft knife!

[sal.]

Really good stuff. Thanx.

Martyn, sorry about the BB....life without humour is no fun

I don't think 52100 would provide much in the way of additional corrosion resistance over 01, I think you would get some additional chrome carbides, but I'm not a metalurgist. The real advantage is the very fine grain structure of 52100 and it's a simple carbon steel which is still within the tradition.

Red,

I agree that "ambi" is important and needs to be considered from the onset.

This is good discussion as it explores more deeply the purpose. Thanx. Rotation of some parts from one side to the other sometimes offers simple solution to ambi. Is there a value to carrying a sharpening tool in the sheath?

My tendency is at this time to consider two variations of the same pattern. Traditional and modern materials (as Martyn would say, the NASA model). This also opens up questions about a 2nd modern sheath

We have had some offers of designs from experienced bushcrafters, which we'll look at closely. We'd be building this for you so it is really imporant that it serve you. (you, the user, not the collector...it has got to work better, for us, or why bother to build it?)

I really appreciate all of the info and design solutions offered.

I'm open.

In the interest of following forum rules, I'd like to avoid costs, company or product promotion or anything commercial. A design symposium, if you will, to help us learn and develop a design, but no promotion of that design. Your kind understanding is appreciated.

sal

 

[British Red]

This is good discussion as it explores more deeply the purpose. Thanx. Rotation of some parts from one side to the other sometimes offers simple solution to ambi. Is there a value to carrying a sharpening tool in the sheath?

My tendency is at this time to consider two variations of the same pattern. Traditional and modern materials (as Martyn would say, the NASA model). This also opens up questions about a 2nd modern sheath


sal

Sal,

The sharpening tool on sheath is probably even more contentious than the firesteel loop. Its sort of a divided issue. I say yes.......the rest of the world says no . Now most of us carry a field sharpener of some sort. Falkniven DC4/3 diamond/ceramics are popular as are EZE - laps etc. I suspect we could easily design a pocket for one in, but which one?

As a principal, yes I think there is value. It would clearly add cost to the rig though - and would limit choice of sharpener.....although Tiffers put one on both the rigs we worked up, that was a very personal choice of mine...I'm not sure others would want to have their choice of sharpener dictated...

Anyone have an opinion on this?

Red


As for the more modern sheath, I'll turn it over in my mind...there are some real possiblities given some of the flexible mounting options offered now with lined kydex

Red

 

[Nemisis]

As many of us already carry some means of sharpening why not add a short strip of leather with a cord/loop at one end to be used as a strop something suitable to take a cutting compound?
Dave.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Wow, things have certainly gathered apace since I last looked here. Many posts have got me thinking off at a tangent which is a way of saying that I'm about to do a U-turn on my last ideas.
Perhaps a thinner blade than a WL would make any knife a little more user friendly. Chris is quite right about the ease of outdoor sharpening -a thinner bevel is easier than a wide one, as is the suggestion of some kind of blade marking that says tool not weapon.
Handle material could well be the kraton, but if we're thinking to keep it sheeple friendly, then maybe not black. I won't suggest a colour, because there'll be those that want it bright so you can't loose it and those that want it subdued.

The sheath ideas have got my mind all fired up with suggestions but it all sounds a bit too "Utility belt" when taken to the extreem.
An incorporated sharpener either permanently set to; or able to replicate the angles on the Sharpmaker. I envisage something like the pocket sharpeners with two crossed ceramic sticks. OR. Angled holes (A la Sharpmaker) in a kydex sheath with small crock sticks laid into a compartment in the spine of the sheath. I'm very wary of freehand sharpening in the field, only to have to repeat the process when I get home in order to recover the bevels to the correct angles.

Hmmm more thinks going on....

Ogri the trog

 

[leon-1]

Right guys, sal has a couple of threads running that cover sharpening and the sheath for this beastie. So what about this for the blade;

No More than 100mm long
Maximum depth of blade 35mm
width of blade 3.5mm
Drop point, dropping the point by 15mm from the spine.

Grind, 2/3 the depth of the blade, this maintains a certain amount of strength that you would have with the scandi / sabre grind and combines the slicing ability of a full flat without the edge becoming too fragile. It should mean that it will still be good for working wood and skinning of game.

Steel, for stainless either VG 10 or S30V @ RC 60, for carbon 52100 or O1 @ RC 58.

Handle either micarta, G10 or Stabilised wood this would solve problems of taking the knife to some of the wetter or some of the exceptionally hot enviroments. Length 115mm, with the tang tapered to make it lighter.

 

[soup_monger]

That's sounds really good Leon.

I was hoping that something would take shape and I saw more constructive thought here on BCUK than I did elsewhere.

I'm looking forward to it now.

Cheers

 

[laurens ch]

I like the sound of that too ,I would prefer a plastic or kydex sheath
A micarta or diamond wood handle seems more practical and they don't look too bad either.
edit
would like 3mm thickness if possible

 

[happy camper]

Hi leon-1,
that all sounds good to me too, here's my 2p..

blade length...I'd prefer 80 to 90mm blade length but agree no longer than 100mm

depth of blade... between 25 and 30mm

blade thickness... 3 to 4mm (thin enough for slicing and carving but thick enough to not destroy a baton and to just feel robust)

Drop or spear point, (15mm drop sounds good but would depend on the other proportions i guess, prefer the point to be about centre of knife)

Grind...the 3/4 sounds interesting but i've never used one so it would be either sabre/scandi for me or even convex, both are excellent and have their own merits but a scandi pips it for me because a convex would put it up against the f1 and i want a scandi/sabre grind in stainless

Square spine (for scraping bark, ferro rod etc)

Steel.. stainless..love vg10 @ rc 59 and for carbon whatever will perform well with minimum maintenance around water

Handle shape..should be full and comfortable, no finger guard but enough shape to feel secure and know where you are, swell at the back like a woodlore, ambidextrous and with enough shape to be able to feel which way is which without looking.

Handle material..agree again, micarta stabalised wood, whatever it is it should be stable, easy to maintain comfortable and grippy in varying conditions.

 

[British Red]

Right guys, sal has a couple of threads running that cover sharpening and the sheath for this beastie. So what about this for the blade;

No More than 100mm long
Maximum depth of blade 35mm
width of blade 3.5mm
Drop point, dropping the point by 15mm from the spine.

Grind, 2/3 the depth of the blade, this maintains a certain amount of strength that you would have with the scandi / sabre grind and combines the slicing ability of a full flat without the edge becoming too fragile. It should mean that it will still be good for working wood and skinning of game.

Steel, for stainless either VG 10 or S30V @ RC 60, for carbon 52100 or O1 @ RC 58.

Handle either micarta, G10 or Stabilised wood this would solve problems of taking the knife to some of the wetter or some of the exceptionally hot enviroments. Length 115mm, with the tang tapered to make it lighter.

I'm intellectually outgunned on this one by all the bladesmiths so I can only talk as a user.

My perceptions are that I find some bushy knives too thick and too wide for both game and wood work. If I want to use a knife as an axe I'll use my Wiseman! So for me

100mm blade, 25mm wide and 3mm thick. Full flat grind (convex is too hard to field maintain for me and hollow too delicate). Scandy is fine but full has a clean look to it. I'd like a 12.5mm drop to keep the point blade central.

I'd like the handle to look organic (stabalised or diamond wood) but not shrink move or crack. I'm a "must have a lanyard tube" guy and I like the handle to be anatomical and curved (not square like an F1 which really lets that knife down IMHO). Don't know how to describe it properly, but thin near the ricasso and pommel with a central swell that goes all round the knife (for undercuts etc.). The handle should be oval in cross section, not round.

Red

 

[Nemisis]

That sounds very much like the Grohmann flat grind boat knife apart from the handle details.
Dave.

 

[happy camper]

Definately agree about the f1 thermorun handle British Red, too thin and square, it is the only real let down on the knife for me, which i think is absolutely superb. In Fallkniven's defence, perhaps it's use as a swedish airforce survival knife places some restrictions on the proportions? I'd be interested to know why Fallkniven opted for that handle, it seems wrong when everything else on the knife seems so right. The H1 has a fuller, more rounded handle that feels much more comfortable but even that is a little on the slim side for me.

 

[Andy]

I really really don't want a full flat grind knife. I see no advantage in that over a convex ground knife. A scandi would be my first choice and would mean that people who already have an F1 might be more likely to buy one

blade depth somewhere between 25 and 30mm,
blade thickness 3mm (must be less then 4mm IMO)
blade point drop with point 2/3 way up from the straight cutting edge
bevels somewhere between 15 and 20per side
blade length about 95mm with a ricasso less then 5mm (2 or 3mm)


Just my opinion of course

 

[Hoodoo]

That sounds very much like the Grohmann flat grind boat knife apart from the handle details.
Dave.

 

[spamel]

Why not make the sheath identical on both sides. No belt loop, buckles or press studs required, make the knife sit in the sheath deep like a lot of knives these days and supply something similar to the old style SLR bayonet frog. You can then put the sheath into the frog in either a left or right hand carry.

If you need the description of an SLR bayonet frog, many here could help. I'll look and see if I can find a link to something similar to show the idea.

 

[tomtom]

Right guys, sal has a couple of threads running that cover sharpening and the sheath for this beastie. So what about this for the blade;

No More than 100mm long
Maximum depth of blade 35mm
width of blade 3.5mm
Drop point, dropping the point by 15mm from the spine.

Grind, 2/3 the depth of the blade, this maintains a certain amount of strength that you would have with the scandi / sabre grind and combines the slicing ability of a full flat without the edge becoming too fragile. It should mean that it will still be good for working wood and skinning of game.

Steel, for stainless either VG 10 or S30V @ RC 60, for carbon 52100 or O1 @ RC 58.

Handle either micarta, G10 or Stabilised wood this would solve problems of taking the knife to some of the wetter or some of the exceptionally hot enviroments. Length 115mm, with the tang tapered to make it lighter.

leon that sounds really good, personally i would ask for about 90mm of blade and depth of no more than 25mm (rather like happy campers specs) but i think this is perhaps a little smaller then most would go for.. so i think what you have said would be pretty well on the money, and i would likely buy one (of each )

 

[laurens ch]

happy camper
" I'd be interested to know why Fallkniven opted for that handle, it seems wrong when everything else on the knife seems so right. "

only guessing here but perhaps the thinner handle works better if your wearing gloves.

 

[Nemisis]

I use the Grohmann No.4 survival knife as my main and the boat knife for finer stuff both in the flat grind Hoodoo. You agree Reds description comes very close to the boat knife?
Dave.

 

[happy camper]

only guessing here but perhaps the thinner handle works better if your wearing gloves.

makes sense!

 

[Hoodoo]

I use the Grohmann No.4 survival knife as my main and the boat knife for finer stuff both in the flat grind Hoodoo. You agree Reds description comes very close to the boat knife?
Dave.

Well, I guess he could tell ya that, one way or the other.

 

[sal.]

After many drawings and "soft" models based on input here and other forums, we do have a "pattern" made of a "bushblade". Nothing is decided yet as I'm still waiting on some outside designs.

It's not quite a spear, but dropped a little more than a drop point.
The blade length is just under 100mm.
Blade depth is 29mm.
Point is 12mm below spine line at rear.
Thickness on the model is 3mm, but I think I'd like to go 3.5mm.
Handle length is 123mm.
Material is 52100 carbon steel.
Model is full flat grind with 32 degree edge, 59Rc, I wanted to do a CATRA test
on Monday and needed something to test.
I'll try to post a pic on Monday for your thoughts. (need help on pics)

This will also give Red, Tiffers & team some idea of the direction.

sal