The perfect Bushcraft knife!

[tarmix101]

What would be your perfect Bushcraft knife.
Cheers, Ken

Just a quick after thought. I know a picture is worth it's weight in gold for me. Here is a pic of my standard "out in the woods" kit. The fixed blade in the middle (minus the kydex sheath, it has been replaced) is what I prefer to use for utility. The second pic is my main skinner @ the moment.

Allen Blade Bushcrafter

BRKT Highland Special

 

[Martyn]

Well, the so-called improved bowie looks nothing like the American Bowie design. It also looks very little like what Americans typically carry into the woods today. Knife designs like this harken back to the early 20th century and before. Additionally, I think Grohmann would argue that it's a Canadian design.

Sorry Terry, I should've qualified it. I meant with the approach to butchering of hefty game being a major priority.

For the British lads, fine woodworking plays a much bigger part.

 

[Hoodoo]

Sorry Terry, I should've qualified it. I meant with the approach to butchering of hefty game being a major priority.

Yeah, that makes sense. But still, if you go back a bit, before hunting became so commercial and backpacking became self-contained, knives were expected to do woodcraft and there is a long tradition of woodcraft among outdoor folks of times past. So a knife had to do double duty. That's why thin bladed knives were favored by Nessmuk, Kephartf, Rutstrum, and the like. Both of the knives above are thin bladed and have excellent geometry for woodcarving. Get rid of the secondary bevel on a thin, flat ground blade and there's not much you can't carve with it. And if the blade is well-tempered, you can baton 1/8" blades to split seasoned wood without a problem, although most old timey woodsfolks generally relied on a hatchet or axe for such chores.

BTW, both of the knives in the pic have fairly wide handles and are plenty comfortable for hard carving chores. This is in contrast to the kinds of handles you often find on many American hunting knives.

 

[Hoodoo]

The top one looks like a standard butchers boning knife to me
http://www.sworddepot.com/product_images/vn-40010.gif

Without a doubt. But a little stouter and usually higher rockwell.

Herter went through quite a few different designs with his improved bowie. Never did understand the hump myself.

 

[Martyn]

Yeah, that makes sense. But still, if you go back a bit, before hunting became so commercial and backpacking became self-contained, knives were expected to do woodcraft and there is a long tradition of woodcraft among outdoor folks of times past. So a knife had to do double duty. That's why thin bladed knives were favored by Nessmuk, Kephartf, Rutstrum, and the like. Both of the knives above are thin bladed and have excellent geometry for woodcarving. Get rid of the secondary bevel on a thin, flat ground blade and there's not much you can't carve with it. And if the blade is well-tempered, you can baton 1/8" blades to split seasoned wood without a problem, although most old timey woodsfolks generally relied on a hatchet or axe for such chores.

BTW, both of the knives in the pic have fairly wide handles and are plenty comfortable for hard carving chores. This is in contrast to the kinds of handles you often find on many American hunting knives.

I agree there is more than one way to skin a cat.

But if you want to look at historical precedent, dont the Scandinavians have a fairly substantial history?

 

[Hoodoo]

I agree there is more than one way to skin a cat.

But if you want to look at historical precedent, dont the Scandinavians have a fairly substantial history?

Absolutely! I'm not knocking the Scandi design. I'm a big fan and have more than my share of all kinds of Scandi knives. But I think you will find that most scandi knives (excepting the large leukus) are thinner than the Mears Woodlore.

As you say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[uk ken]

Hello

Thank you all for your input. It looks as though even here opinions are divided. I guess we all have our own ideas about what a knife should be able to do, what it should look and feel like and what the best construction materials are.

I will get back to you with any news on the knife that Sal might produce.

Cheers, Ken

 

[Bjorn Victor]

Hello all,

Nice thread!!

I would like a knife with a 4 - 4.5" blade and 4.5" handle.
Blade is a spear point and convex or scandi grind.
Steel is VG10.
Full tang.
The spine has to be "edged" to work well with a firesteel.
Handle material is kraton (cheaper than wood, but good grip) or wood (curly birtch for me please. ) and slightly contoured to fit well in the hand.
Sheath is waxed leather.
Not a deep sheath, but with a snap closure around the handle. This would make it easier to take out with one hand. Kydex is also ok for me (cheaper) but leather is much nicer!! A holder for a firesteel is not necessary because the firesteel falls out when it gets used and the tension in the holder is redused.

I would consider paying 150-200 euro for something like this.

Thanks,

Bjorn

 

[steven andrews]

I'm not really concerned about field sharpening as I do it at home with a Sharpmaker.
I'm not concerned about striking a firesteel with the spine as I use the striker that came with the Firesteel (if my Bic lighters don't work)
I'm not a strict traditionalist ( I use a Sil-polyester tarp and a Gore-Tex bivi bag)

So...

I'd quite like a flat ground VG-10, D2 or S30V blade in a Mears Woodlore spearpoint shape, with a Fallkniven Thermorun-style handle and a leather sheath.

 

[Ralph]

For me the perfect bushcraft knife would be a woodlore but 1cm shorter and with a price tag 2 zeroes shorter.
Nice thread. Interesting...

 

[sal.]

Hi all,

I thought to visit, thanx for the invite Tony.

Nice forum you have here. Many of you seem like "old friends" from other sites.

It seems that Ken has "challenged" Spyderco to create and build a "bushcraft" model. The project seems interesting, the input is certainly most valuable. It is an area of fixed blades for which we have nothing "in the works" so it's a good place to begin.

Ken has also posted on several forums so info is coming in from several directions. I think he could be classified as a "troublemaker" or at the very least an "instigator".

We would want to produce that which would serve the best, so detail is great.

Pics are great, yes Red, it's ok to be a "thread hog". (BTW, the sheath you and Tifferes made is really impressive!)

Need more input on the sheath fastening methods mentioned, both for the sheath to person and sheath to knife.

My first impressionis that two variations would be needed; VG-10, micarta handle, and carbon steel, wood handle. Leather and kydex sheath versions would also probably work best. Do any of you know anything about 52100 carbon steel?

Red, could you and Tiffers design a sheath(s)?

I think blade shape, length and grind would be first to nail down. I think 4" spearpoint full flat grind with sharp spine, texture on the spine at the rear "might" serve? 1-1/4" wide, 3-3.5mm thick?

Tang is an important feature. My first though is skeletonized full tang. That provides function even if the handle is destroyed (fire, age, etc.), but still keeps the tang light like a tapered tang. I'm sure you have ideas on this as well. Thoughts?

sal

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[British Red]

Sal,

Firstly let me welcome you to BCUK.

Of course I would be delighted to offer any input I can on sheaths, designs etc. I should warn you that I am just a heavy knife user though I'll drop Tiffers a mail tonight and check but I would imagine she would be delighted.

There are many people round here with an encyclopaedic knowledge of knives, designs etc. and I'm sure they will all have a view on how you might proceed (I can't guarantee you will get the same opinion twice of course )

Red

 

[tarmix101]

Hi all,

Do any of you know anything about 52100 carbon steel?

Tang is an important feature. My first though is skeletonized full tang. That provides function even if the handle is destroyed (fire, age, etc.), but still keeps the tang light like a tapered tang. I'm sure you have ideas on this as well. Thoughts?

sal

Welcome to BCUK. First off I think the skeletonized full tang is a brilliant idea. I very well could be wrong, however I can't think of a maker that does this now. Most are either full, or coffin/mortinized tangs.

As far as 52100 steel; it is a ball bearing steel and is used by forgers almost exclusively. From what I have read it is a high speed 1095 of sorts, with 0.98-1.10 carbon to 1095's .90-1.03. It also has chromium added (1.30-1.60)

I feel that VG-10 is a perfect choice for a stainless version, but as far as a carbon version, probably better off going with a carbon tool steel like O1. Seems that price vs workability would be a factor to be considered. Thanks for letting us contribute Sal :You_Rock_

 

[British Red]

We would want to produce that which would serve the best, so detail is great.

Pics are great, yes Red, it's ok to be a "thread hog". (BTW, the sheath you and Tifferes made is really impressive!)

Need more input on the sheath fastening methods mentioned, both for the sheath to person and sheath to knife.

sal,

The "double dangler" (or scandy swivel) is shown better in this picture

I wear the knife on the integral loop when not carrying a pack with the top loop tucked in behind the sheath. This way it rides "high on the hip" and doesn't "flap about". If wearing a bergan with a hip belt, I use the top loop and the knife hangs below the level of the hip belt and doesn't have to be removed when carrying the sack.

I would be tempted on a production sheath to make the top loop removable on some form of clip rather than solid ring. The user then has the choice of whether to use it or remove it if its not to taste (it could be an option in fact).

There is huge contention of firesteel loops - love em or hate em, you won't please all the people all the time. For a present for a friend of mine, Tiffers made a "companion set" that we designed to allow belt carry of stone and firesteel separate from the sheath

Someone on here designed a removable firesteel loop....a clever bloke not me...I'll try and find the post

Again this could offer an alternative to the integral firesteel loop so you please more of the people more of the time.

As for the kydex, the main things I would suggest would be to line it so that the blade didn't get scratched and to use one of the more flexible mounting systems. A positive "click in" engagement would be great (a la Becker Brute in Kydex etc) as would the ability to attach to a brergan shoulder strap (for the same reason as before - avoids fouling the hip belt).

My first impressionis that two variations would be needed; VG-10, micarta handle, and carbon steel, wood handle. Leather and kydex sheath versions would also probably work best. Do any of you know anything about 52100 carbon steel?

I think blade shape, length and grind would be first to nail down. I think 4" spearpoint full flat grind with sharp spine, texture on the spine at the rear "might" serve? 1-1/4" wide, 3-3.5mm thick?

Tang is an important feature. My first though is skeletonized full tang. That provides function even if the handle is destroyed (fire, age, etc.), but still keeps the tang light like a tapered tang. I'm sure you have ideas on this as well. Thoughts?

Well, I really like the full flat grind. Its less common than a scandy and just as maintainable. I'd err to 3mm rather than 3.5 but I think the consensus would be 3.5 or even 4 (which is too thick and drives to steep a grind I find). So for commercial not personal I'd say 3.5mm

Agree with the full tang - skeleton if you think weight is important - I prefer a "solid feeling knife" so would stick with jsut drilling for pins and tube

Hope that helps

Red

 

[British Red]

Sal,

Have a look at this thread for thoughts on a removable firesteel (all credit goes to Pignut - nothing to do with me). Some neat ideas on flexibility and suiting more of the people more of the time there I think

Pignuts Sheath

Red

 

[Tiffers]

Hello Sal, welcome to BB

This looks like its going to be a very interesting project I'd be thrilled to help out with the leather sheath side of things and would suggest that it follows a similar kind of design input thread to the actual knife. Thats going to be a bit in the future though when there is a knife to play with, so for now I'll happily follow this thread and offer comments where I can

Tiffers

 

[British Red]

Hello Sal, welcome to BB

This looks like its going to be a very interesting project I'd be thrilled to help out with the leather sheath side of things and would suggest that it follows a similar kind of design input thread to the actual knife. Thats going to be a bit in the future though when there is a knife to play with, so for now I'll happily follow this thread and offer comments where I can

Tiffers

BB?

Surely you are thinking of the Dark side there mate?

 

[Martyn]

Freudian slip.

 

[sal.]

Thanx Red. Good pics.

52100 is a ball bearing steel that has been used eclusively for forging blades because it has not been available in rolled sheet. We have recently found a source for sheet 52100. We are currently doing abrasive resistance tests on the material.

It might be a good carbon steel for this model?

Ball bearing steels ususally make very good blade steels becaue they are designed to be able to hold a grat deal of force in a very small area without "flattening". Similar to an "edge" of a blade.

BG-42 is a VIM VAR stainless ball bearing steel and it makes a very good blade streel.

52100 has a very fine grain structure and can be made very sharp.

Hey Martyn,

I took Tiffers comment to be BB = BushBozos

sal

 

[Martyn]

Hey Martyn,

I took Tiffers comment to be BB = BushBozos

sal

Hey, no fair Sal, that gem was for poking fun at the General.