The perfect Bushcraft knife!

[Martyn]

Thanx Red. Good pics.

52100 is a ball bearing steel that has been used eclusively for forging blades because it has not been available in rolled sheet. We have recently found a source for sheet 52100. We are currently doing abrasive resistance tests on the material.

It might be a good carbon steel for this model?

Good catch. Would make a superb knife and would be a marketing coup de grâce too, as to date, as you say, I've only ever seen it used on hand forged custom knives.

Just thinking aloud, aside from the wear resistance, it's got a little more chrome that O1. Do you think it's enough to affect/improve the stain resistance?

52100 gets my vote.

 

[British Red]

sal,

been turning this over in my mind overnight! Some thoughts for you that might find interesting

10% of the population are left handed.......

Many of the bushcrafters on here that are south paws have to get custom made sheaths. I think, with a friction fit sheath, it should be possible to be able to insert the knife on either orientation for left or right handed carry. This would imply to me that we need to make the sheath symetrical around a vertical plane...not too difficult, but we may need to think hard around how the neck carry option would work. I've though of using symetrical vertical side appertures (similar to the paddle sheaths that come with some of the smaller chris reeves fixed blades), but the paddle sheath is too radical for many. We could make an adaption to the design of the "double dangler" to permit a neck carry.

Anyone who prefers a neck carry - would you rather have the knife hang straight up and down or oriented on an angle with the hilt towards the drawing hand?

On the firesteel loop, two thoughts occur -

(1)We risk alienating people if we fix the sheath with or without. Some love and some hate it. We could design two (with or without) but I'm erring onto some form of removable loop that fixes onto the rear of the sheath (as opposed to through the neck carry slot like Pignuts does). This would permit the sheath to look "clean" if the loop wasn't fitted.

(2) We should make the loop able to cope with the steel wearing down - either filled with a compressible material that expanded as the steel wears down or sprung in some way (or even able to be tightened like a belt loop. As a prototype imagine a leather loop with an elastic gusset

I am getting an image in my mind of the sheath coming with two or three small extras that can be added to "configure" it in a number of ways - a removable top dangler section, a reversible / removable firesteel loop etc.

Thoughts anyone?

Red

 

[Pignut]

Simple press stud fixing for extras on the sheath,

you could use nothing more then the tube part of the sheath and have press stud extras, i.e. belt loop, fire steel holder, neck carry, stone holder, the posibilities are endless, not sure on the looks?

Just a thought

 

[British Red]

Like that mate - how about the press stud on the back of the sheath - one each side? Then you could set up for left or right handed carry or have two accessories (stone and firesteel) if using the belt loop. In fact if there were three, the belt loop itself could be removed for neck carry. Would that work?

Red

 

[Pignut]

Don't see why not!

You could make every part of the sheath "Add on" ie the belt loop could be stud on the neck carry loop could stud on accessory holders could stud on, especially if the patern for the studs was standard,

 

[Nemisis]

The problem with press studs is that they wear loose in time thereby risking the loss of knife and or kit. Why not sew or cut two loops near the top of the sheath one either side to take a square shaped screw lock karabiner with the belt loop then as a separate piece a double ended leather strip with a loop either end. Add one belt loop for normal carry two for dangler carry the one on the other side for a firesteel/stone type pouch like Tiffers designed. This has the effect of making the sheath left or right hand adaptable and any lost or broken karabiners field reparable with paracord etc. A further karabiner at the base of the sheath gives you the neck carry option with cord looped through it and a belt krab.
Dave.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Frankly,
I prefer not to have press studs at all - nor any other complex means of securing your knife into its sheath. To me it shows a lack of thought in the design of the sheath itself. That or you are expecting to be inverted and shaken whilst wearing your knife! There are some activities that just should not be undertaken whilst wearing a knife.
A good deep sheath that can either be worn as neck or belt carry is purfect.

Ogri the trog

 

[British Red]

Dave,

I take your point on the press studs and I do like the thought of screw locking on the accessories in some way. That'll be easy with kydex. I can't quite envisage your "loops" design - do you mean almost like a small firesteel loop on each side of the sheath that the karabiner could go through?

H

 

[British Red]

Ogri,

The press stud is more to allow a firesteel loop or accesory to be added to the sheath than to hold the kinfe in place - I agree with you on that - a deep friction fit is fine

Red

 

[Nemisis]

A loop or slot horizontal to the top of the sheath one either side to take the krab one side for the belt loops the other the pouch if the pouch isn't used the sheath lines are still quite clean. You could make two sizes of the add on belt loops then standard or exl for military belts
Dave.

 

[pteron]

From a size/shape point of view, I like the Woodlore, but it is a little too thick for food prep in my opinion.

I'd like a sheeth with the firesteel option, for woodcraft I prefer leather, with a simple profile, i.e. no excessive decoration.

The handle material? Either micarta or wood.

It should be friendly looking - no one is going to mistake the Woodlore for a Rambo knife, the Spyderco should be similar. If we are going out into the woods, we do not want a knife that will scare people.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have been mulling this bushcraft knife idea over for a while. I am not a fan of the Woodlore blade as I feel it is too specialised for wood work, and in the real world, even if you dress in green and like Swandri, you are not going to NEED to carve much on wilderness expeditions. Not to the extent that you sacrifice general slicing ability for the "wood plane sole" cutting ability of a thick scandi grind.

That big flat bevel is a pain to resharpen in the field. At least that is how I find it. Trying to remove metal evenly from an 8mm bevel vs. a 2mm bevel, or very edge of a convex. It works on the Woodlore because O-1 is pretty easy to sharpen. I don't suppose that it would be so good in VG-10 or S30V.

I would prefer to see Spyderco make a knife based on their proven materials and techniques, but have the design tweaked for bushcraft, rather than have them try to draw too heavily from the Woodlore. More than one person has mentioned to me that the Woodlore instructors left their wood handled, carbon bladed, knives at home when on expeditions to Namibia, Thailand, and other places of extreme heat or dampness. A knife using VG-10, a nylon/kraton handle, and a kydex sheath would survive anywhere. Best would be a kydex sheath and Teklok for multi-position carry.

Having handled Spyderco fixed blades I have to say I was impressed with the weight, balance and multi grip ergonomics. Those overmouldings make a nice light knife that is easy to pack too. On second thoughts though, the use of Kraton might not be so good where DEET will be used.

For a temperate climate knife, 52100 would be nice. I was just wondering if A2 had been considered? Its air hardening, so can be treated by the same facilities that do the stainless steels, it holds an edge better than O-1, isn't a lot harder to sharpen (D2 can be) and is both tougher, and more resistant to corrosion than the O-1.

There is no such thing as the "Best" bushcraft knife. It doesn't matter what materials are used, there will be a chunk of the market that doesn't like the product. For many, something in 52100 with burl wood handles and a leather sheath would be perfect, and look the traditional part, but it would not look like a Spyderco and wouldn't, I think, make the best use of their existing well of experience. I think there is a big gap in the market for the kind of knife that Spyderco has made in the past, but with a form suited to our pursuit, rather than to hunting, self-defence, or utility.

My 2p.

 

[Nemisis]

In other words make a frosts mora better and cheaper lol.
Dave.

 

[Doc]

Heres my 2p. Much as I like the Woodlore, it is not absolutely ideal:

It is too heavy. Weight matters, especially if backpacking or canoeing.
It rusts too easily.
Birds eye maple handle not sufficiently waterproof.
Sheath retains moisture.
Too biased towards cutting wood (as mentioned by Chris).
Field sharpening I find ok, but could be easier.
It is too thick.
Finally, and the clincher for me is that it is too valuable. These days I am out in my canoe a lot. I have this nightmare that I tip and after successful self rescue find that I have £400 of Woodlore knife at the bottom of the loch....

On the plus side it is very robust, and is a superior tool for splitting wood with a baton (which I think is a very important task).


Another very important advantage of the Woodlore, for UK use especially, is that the blade markings ('Design Ray Mears') imply it is a tool for woodcraft/camping/outdoor living rather than a weapon. I would strongly suggest that a bushcraft knife should indicate on the blade what it is for in some way.


I was interested in Hoodoo's comments re the Herter as recently I've replaced my WS Woodlore with a stainless Grohmann boat knife. It is lighter and so far the Rosewood scales seem pretty resistant to water/heat. I have hot waxed (cuirboilli) the sheath and it's now pretty waterproof and the knife clicks in as if it were kydex. http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=864

I know nylon/kraton/kydex are more robust but aesthetics matter. I would suggest that rosewood or resin impregnated wood and a hot waxed leather sheath would be almost as practical but just 'nicer'. I'm no steel expert but something more corrosion resistant than 01 would be good.

 

[C_Claycomb]

To me the ergonomics of the handle are more important than what it is made of. Getting the right sort of curved cross section, with almost no flat areas, using handle slabs, be they wood or micarta, is much more difficult, from a manufacturing stand point, than using a moulded handle. That difficulty would normally translate into added cost. Even if the knife is a brilliant performer, and looks pretty, if it cost £150+ after it gets to the UK it isn't going to be viable for many people. That's cheaper than some customs, but is a lot more than an F1, or the Kellam type puukkos.

 

[happy camper]

I agree that there is definitely a need for a mass produced bushcraft knife in the lower to mid price range, say £40 to £100. Any less and you are competing with scandi’s that are good quality and work very well at prices as low as £8, and any more and you are starting to compete with what for many is the ideal, a handmade woodlore ‘esque bushcraft knife.
I also reckon a non “tactical”, non threatening appearance is a very important consideration for the U.K, not just to fit in with the bushcrafty style, but because of much of the general public’s perception and attitude towards knives as weapons rather than tools. While this isn’t an issue for the actual knife users, there aren’t many places you can go to practice bushcraft and use your tools without the possibility of bumping into someone who may not be so familiar with, or comfortable around knives, so the more tool like and non threatening the knife looks to the average punter, the better.
While i reckon the aesthetics and choice of handle and sheath materials should be in keeping with, and as far as possible express the knife’s intended use, in this case that of traditional bushcraft tool used mainly for woodwork, i still think this should allow for modern materials and construction where beneficial, and still manage to inspire the confidence associated with more tactical or survival or utility type knives that it will take absolutely anything you can throw at it.

 

[Hoodoo]

I've always liked the Gerber 475 as an all-round knife. The blade is nicely thin and well suited for bushcraft. The handle is super comfy. The guard area could be subdued a bit.

Too bad they stopped making them. Would love to see one in full tang and micarta, stabilized wood, etc.

 

[Bjorn Victor]

Hello there,

With all this talk about the perfect bushcraft knife I was wondering what you people need the knife for?

In other words: what do you do with you knife?

Sharpen a stick, cut rope,...?

I use my fallkniven S1 to split wood for the fire, cut fuzzy sticks, aid in building a shelter, opening coconuts, making a spear and cutting the occasional piece of rope.

What do you do?
I believe a knife should meet your needs, not just look "bushcrafty".

Bjorn

 

[Tiffers]

Hmmm, I was doing something repetative at work today and my mind started working around and about

Ok, how does this sound? An ambidextrous sheath that is stitched and welted all the way around. Nice and deep to help the friction fit. The belt loop that turns over the back isnt stitched down, instead it goes to a fastening of some kind (I'm thinking buckle purely as they are very unlikely to pop open).

Open the belt loop up and you can slide on a double dangler attachment or you can slip on a firesteel collar, or both if you so wish. The collar is retained by the belt loop and means you can position the firesteel to the side of the knife, the front or the rear.

Because the sheath is stitched all the way around its easy to also incorporate a couple of lash-down holes at the bottom for those who done like it flapping when on the double dangler.

Having a belt loop that unfastens like this means you can also attach it in places a traditional style belt loop isnt able to go. Not sure if this is a help but it sounds good

No press studs as they can foul up and wear out too quickly. No sam browne style studs as they can be pulled undone a little too easily for my liking.

The sheath maintains a nice clean look from the front but also retains the usual bits and pieces you bushcraft people seem to like

How does this sound?

I might knock up a version of this at the weekend.

Tiffers

 

[British Red]

Tiffers - thats certainly sounds good mate - tick on the ambi for certain and actually I really like the buckle thought too - a lot of people have commented (favourably) on the sort of bridle look the one you did for me has - it has a certain solidity.

The flapping problem is mine...I have rarely met another bushcrafter who worries about a leg tie down on their sheath so I might be tempted not to worry too much about that....unless.....could it form a sort of "spydie hole"??? Or....how about a sydie hole at the top of the sheath for those who want a neck carry?

The buckle up belt loop...could it also be made a feature so that you could put on or take off the knife without having to undo your belt? I guess I'm thinking buckle at the back, but a bit lower than normal so your hands can get at it and its not too fiddly. With the loop being "deeper" like that, you could also buckle it over a bergan hip belt if you wanted.

I have a Chris Reeves Mountaineer or an F1 you could use as a form if you like? Well - worth a try

Red