The Outfit

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Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
There is a satisfying feeling in using kit that you have had a long time and know well. On the other hand, it is good to try out new kit.

One current fashion amongst backpackers is ultralight - eg using tarp tent, and cooking on a pepsi can stove plus titanium pot (ca 250g versus 1 kilo for the Swedish Army messkit.) Of course, a tiny pot with a side handle is not ideal with a fire.

Ultralight is nothing new - as Nessmuk said 'Go light, as light as possible' although I think some folk take it to extremes (cutting off labels and edges of maps for instance)

Of course, it depends what you are doing - if you're walking a lot, especially if uphill, you want a lighter outfit. Although I like sleeping under a basha, I often prefer a lightweight tent as sometimes I prefer to sleep in the mountains rather than the forests, and I think the tent is better suited.

It's interesting to note Rays first book listed a Coleman petrol stove and Coleman stainless cookset in his outfit - that is exactly what I used in the mid eighties. But I got fed up of the Colemans unreliability and moved to gas which served me well - until recently when the gas stove did not perform well in the snow and wind. Just now I'm trialling the Swedish military Trangia and I like it a lot. I don't know why as it is too heavy by modern standards but it is compact, 'nice to use' and as reliable as the sunrise. And it works with the fire.

It looks like RM has also dropped the 'woodlore tomahawk' (what that?) in favour of the Gransfors SFA.

Either I am getting fitter, or kit is much lighter than it used to be. I did the four day 50 mile Duke of Edinburgh trip in Cumbria 20 years ago when I was 17 or so and struggled a bit with a 66 litre sac full of kit. I can manage now with the 40 litre sabre for that kind of trip and still have room.

Sorry, this is a rambling thread. But I just wondered how others find the outfit evolves over time.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
I think there's a balance to be struck between weight and reliability/comfort. At the extreme end, alpine climbers and mountain marathon runners take extremely light kit and endure discomfort for the sake of performance. That's not bushcraft to me.

You could argue that a good bushman only needs a knife/axe and what he stands up in. Again, I'm just not that good. The kit I carry tends to be things I have used for a while and found robust, reliable and multi-functional. I won't swap something for a lighter version unless I can prove it's just as good.

It's like axes - what is usually the best material to make a handle for an axe? Wood! Same as it has been for years. And wood is still pretty light, right? You could have a carbon fibre axe handle but if it breaks, how do you repair/replace it?

Likewise, with clothing. I have some kit I use for climbing that is very lightweight but it doesn't last! Also, down-filled kit may be lightweight but it doesn't work when it's wet (ie, in the UK). One of the best bits of kit I bought last year was a Primaloft filled North Face belay jacket (Redpoint Optimus) and it stays warm when wet! However, it's heavier and less compressible than a down-filled equivalent. Another example: Buffalo mountain shirts are bulky and heavy. They are also extremely warm and robust. Love 'em.

I do this for fun mainly and you have to draw the line somewhere - I want to stay warm and comfy if I can and cook with pans that feel like they might last a few days. Light is mostly right - but you could also say that, sometimes, light is s**te.
 

TheViking

Native
Jun 3, 2004
1,864
4
35
.
I try to keep the rucksack below 12 kg, but it usually ends on 15 anyways. :roll: On canoe trips, weight is not an issue with one rucksack per person. It's the food that weighs. :) Without food my pack can go pretty low, but if you do 'bushcraft' with the clothes you wear and a knife, I'd say it's on the edge to 'survival'. :roll: My 2 cents.
 

arctic hobo

Native
Oct 7, 2004
1,630
4
37
Devon *sigh*
www.dyrhaug.co.uk
Doc said:
Ultralight is nothing new - as Nessmuk said 'Go light, as light as possible' although I think some folk take it to extremes (cutting off labels and edges of maps for instance)
When the separation between you making it or not, or you lasting another day or not, or whatever it is, is as tiny as it often is, 2-3g can save your life.
 

woodrat

Forager
Dec 31, 2004
124
0
66
Oregon U.S.A.
I keep telling myself "this will be my ultamite kit", and within a year or so its changing agian!!, try'd for years to use "off the shelf gear", never really worked out. I figure about the time I get to old to pack it any longer I will have come up with my ultamite kit, untill then darwin might be in charge of my gear!, seems change is inevitable, much like evolution, it never gets boring this way and I don't get gear complacent.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Mikey P said:
It's like axes - what is usually the best material to make a handle for an axe? Wood! Same as it has been for years. And wood is still pretty light, right? You could have a carbon fibre axe handle but if it breaks, how do you repair/replace it?

That's rather a sweeping statement Mate.... is that from experience of actually using both types of axe or simply how you perceive things to be.
I have two Gerber axes, one very small handsized with a knife in the handle and one larger camp sized axe, both have resin handles. I have reversed my car over the larger one and there's hardly a scratch on it let alone a crack or break. I have to say I think the wood looks nicer and is more in keeping with my idea of bushcraft but for weight and wet weather use I'm more than happy without a wooden handled axe. With regard to replacing a broken handle....do many of us really have the right skill to do this safely? I know some of the guys here will but I'd be worried about doing it properly and not having the head fly off.
It's hardly fair to point this out (as it was rather unlucky for the chap involved) but at the meet up last weekend there where about 6 or 7 Gerber axes and the rest where wood....all the gerbers made it home safely and in one piece....not all the wooden ones did.
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
people often say that I am an Ultra light weight camper and a complete weight freak, but its not the case yes I do use very light weight equipment and yes 35lt is about the most I ever take into the woods.

But the weight is not my overriding concern I do not carry ultra light kit so that I can reduce the weight of my kit as much as possible I use it so that I can carry as much kit for a certain weight as possible.

people look at my pack and assume that I don't carry much, but its all in there.
 

jamesdevine

Settler
Dec 22, 2003
823
0
48
Skerries, Co. Dublin
Like ethusiests(sp) of any kind we will always want to have the new shiny thinks. Even Nessmuk changed his kit in order to find the best lightweight yet comfortable outfit.

But I think keeping it simple is name of the game when looking of the ultimate outfit.

Saying that seasons change as do we. So our outfit changes with us. I remember being 18 and carrying an 80ltr pack full to the brim with essentials for a weekends camping and hiking. Now 35-50ltr will do me fine even in winter with room to spare.

I have learnt more and my body has changed and so my kit has evolved. Nessmuk had his reasons for the light set up (mainly ill health) but if your looking for the ultimate outfit well I believe the KISS philosophy is the best one to follow.

My thoughts
james :pack:
 

Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
This is interesting. I would be interested to see kit lists and typical pack weights, say for 3 days/ 2 nights in the UK, say in spring, with a mixture of woodland and mountain or moorland environment.

The argument about robustness is highly relevant - a lot of the ultralight gear looks a bit....well, fragile! I might lie on my belly to see deer better wearing my Cordura Barbour breathable jacket - I wouldn't do that with Paclite goretex.

Just thinking about my current outfit:

Sabre 40 1.5kg from memory?
Sleeping bag 1.5kg
Thermarest clone 500g
Tent 2kg
Water 1l = 1kg
Swedish mess set 1kg
Waterproof jacket ..dunno, maybe 1kg
Food say 1.5kg if some dehydrated
Knife, cordage, matches, torch, gaiters, odds and sods 1kg
I don't have an axe. Yet.

11kg off the top of my head. Better go and weigh it.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
I think it depends very much what I'm doing and how long I'll be out...for example...

At the weekend I was arriving by car and not walking more than 500metres so I brought shed loads of gear....just stuff to play with really....
When I go to wales to wonder round the beacons with my hound I take a 35l munro and the dog has his saddlebags as we want to travel light while we're waking.
If I'm just going into the local woods for a few hours then I just take my possibles bag.
If I'm away and walking for a week or more then I take my PLCE Bergen which is 120l with side pockets....

Horses for courses me thinks :eek:):
 

woodrat

Forager
Dec 31, 2004
124
0
66
Oregon U.S.A.
I always find the weight issue interesting. I don't plan my kit that way, I assemble the stuff I want to carry, then figure out how to comfortably pack it. I must have been a sherpa in a past life, don't really mind it being heavy[ within reason], just want it functional and orderly. It needs a certain amount of operational deversity as I call it and thats how my gear eqausion works. spent all weekend working on this new belt kit and acc.s, hope to have it finished today so I can take it out for a test run[ or walk ], tomorrow.I will try a get some picts, maybe get one of you mates to help me post them correctly.
 

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