The importance of disinfectant

[mrcharly]

<disclaimer>I'm not medically trained</disclaimer>
When I was young (maaaaany years ago), the first treatment for minor wounds and grazes was to apply dettol or mercuracrome (sp?). Anything that didn't need stitching was drenched in dettol, kept clean and left to heal.

These days, everyone seems to talk endlessly of bandages and dressings. The Meltonian type dressings are certainly fab, and micropore is useful stuff.

But. But.

There seems to me to be too much 'sealing it in'. Often from terror of infection. However, thorough cleaning is neglected, even in hospital. My wife split the web between big and next toe a couple of years back - went on hols to france with it bandaged up (by hospital). Within days she had raging infection. French doctor cleaned it out, gave her a tube of betadine with instructions to apply several times a day. Wound healed inside of a week.

Last weekend I was stripping rigging from an old boat. Lots of rust particles in skin, many 'splinters' from old synthetic rope under my skin, of course they started to 'pus up' inside of 24hrs. I had a normal 1st aid kit on board - but the multiplicity of dressing were of sod all use, what I needed was a needle and some disinfectant.

I think for a short living rough trip, having something like betadine, dettol or the like is really important. Get a minor cut, plaster some on, carry on. Don't think that a bandaid will protect you; you are outdoors, probably already have muck in there from the accident.

What do the (actually medically trained) people here think?

 

[mountainm]

Doesn't Alcohol gel do the same thing?

 

[mrcharly]

I'm not sure - doesn't it quickly evaporate? Can you use it to flush out a graze or shallow cut?

 

[mountainm]

I'd use clean water, then the alcohol gel to sterilise...?

 

[markie*mark0]

bit of spit works for me

 

[bmartin1uk]

Just recently been on an emergency first aid training course and it was very much "no liquids, no gels, no nothing in case you KILL them!!". I appreciate people some people have allergies and the HSE i'm sure have looked long and hard about what best to teach people, and keep it simple, but its not gonna stop me from taking some alcohol swabs, savlon or TSP with me to give simple cuts and grazes a clean.
Like you mrcharly, i'm keen to see what the Docs say.

 

[markie*mark0]

Just recently been on an emergency first aid training course and it was very much "no liquids, no gels, no nothing in case you KILL them!!". I appreciate people some people have allergies and the HSE i'm sure have looked long and hard about what best to teach people, and keep it simple, but its not gonna stop me from taking some alcohol swabs, savlon or TSP with me to give simple cuts and grazes a clean.
Like you mrcharly, i'm keen to see what the Docs say.

I think the first aider, course's are primarily desgined for you to keep the person breathing and blood pumping, everything else is just wait until the 999 person arrives...

 

[mrcharly]

I'm thinking more of the 'five splinters in hand, two 1/8" inch cuts and a graze and I'm on first day of a week's camping in the woods' scenario.

IME, those sorts of small injuries can get infected and pus-filled really fast, even if you try to keep them covered.

 

[bmartin1uk]

I think the first aider, course's are primarily desgined for you to keep the person breathing and blood pumping, everything else is just wait until the 999 person arrives...

I agree and this was exactly how the course was designed, and perfect for me and the rest on it. However, we did cover cuts and grazes amongst other 'puncture' wounds and we're told to clean with non-alcohol wipe and cover - is this then assuming we will send the person off to A&E after, no matter how 'minor' we think the cut. Hmmmm perhaps i should have asked that question oops. That might be a phone call for tomorrow!

Reading mrcharly's comments it looks like this wasnt good enough for his wife and as he asks would it be good enough for the start of a week long foray. Keen to see if we have any pro's in here who can offer some advice.

 

[dj77]

They took Savlon off first aiders over 20 years ago although antiseptic wipes were allowed. Personally for my own minor injuries I have always had a strong aversion to plasters bandages etc I always wash thoroughly rinse with disinfectant and have usually healed a damn sight quicker than when forced to stick a plaster on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mrcharly]

I should emphasize that my wife had attended A&E. The split/cut looked clean, so they wiped around it with alcohol swabs, bandages it up and sent her on her way.

 

[bmartin1uk]

I should emphasize that my wife had attended A&E. The split/cut looked clean, so they wiped around it with alcohol swabs, bandages it up and sent her on her way.

I wonder if this was one of those unlucky situations, where perhaps antibiotics might have been needed?? Do you think it wasnt cleaned enough or should it have been uncovered to allow air to get to it?

 

[mrcharly]

Both and it couldn't have been cleaned using swabs - over 1/2" deep and 1" long.

 

[bmartin1uk]

Both and it couldn't have been cleaned using swabs - over 1/2" deep and 1" long.

ooooo nasty. Theres a thread on here somewhere about Celox - just to change the subject for a second - the first aid trainer mentioned that if you're out and about doing bushcrafty things, away from civilisation - this might not be a bad product to carry with you for anything life threatening.

Sorry if i hijacked your thread a abit - massive paranoia with things like this - Blame my ma for that i think:togo:

 

[Dave Budd]

I went on a first aid course at the endo of last year that was organised by a bunch of fellow woodsmen and had been tailored for our needs (still HSE approaved 1st aiders course, but the trainer was ex-forrestry so knew what we were likely to be encountering on a daily basis). We did the various things that the HSE require you to learn for the tick boxes and then we ran lots of different things past the trainers just to find out. So amongst the things that we asked were relatively minor cuts/burns/abrasions as well as the "oh poop, call 999!" stuff.

Basically told that if it's bad enough to send to A&E or ambulance, then don't worry too much about dissenfection because it is likely to be done at the other end. If its a non-emergency thing (like we all do ourselves and just stick a plaster or couple of steri-strips on), then clean and dissenfect before dressing; but ONLY if the person is not likely to be allergic to it (ie do it to yourself and let them do their own cleaning to protect yourself).

I guess it's generally felt that infections can be dealt with later if they occur, but a bleeding hole needs closing asap?

I always keep a bottle of TCP in my kit and I drench cuts with the stuff. I've beento the doc's because a clean cut that washed tcp'd still got infected! I don't recomend using acetone though, that stings!

 

[trekkingnut]

well, from my perspective, all the first aid ive done in the jungle has been to not close a wound under any circumstances as you will just seal in the nasties!

weve even been instructed in the past that a tiny bit of bleach in a large amount of water is damn good at getting rid of any infections but ive always had something like betadine.

To wash cuts out properly, carrying an empty syringe with no needle is gold dust, fill it up with clean water and then shove the plunger home hard and flush out anything thats left in the wound. very easy to use and very directable as well as reusable time and time again!

 

[Samon]

Disinfectant is versatile, I use it diluted with water in a pocket size spray bottle to clean my hands after handling my ferret and other outdoor things. The anti bacterial gel stuff stinks so I don't use that.

My dad used it neat in his mouth after he pulled a back tooth out with pliers..(he doesn't like the dentist) and it kept things clean, he used it on a deep cut in his shin too after a piece of toilet we were smashing up flew at him, few diy cotton thread stitches and dettol sorted it out.

 

[Highbinder]

Just to throw my two pence in: For any cuts or grazes that I have bandaged/plastered I'll remove/loosen it to let it breath through the night. It seems to speed up the healing process and it's a lot more comfortable the following day when applying fresh bandages.

bit of spit works for me

Now this is one I've heard conflicting opinions about. Some insist it's good, others' say your mouth is filthy (relatively speaking) and it'll do a wound no good.

 

[Mikey P]

We often use bandages and plasters to prevent further dirt getting into wounds, to protect from further damage or to allow us to continue with functional use of an area where we otherwise wouldn't be able. For example, when you are long-distance running, if you get a blister you clean it and tape it. It means you can keep running. However, as soon as you're done, you clean it and let it dry to help it heal.

Unless it is going to cause further damage, I think the OP is right in terms of letting wounds 'breathe'. Boiled water (with salt in it if possible, ie, saline solution) is probably the best way to clean wounds - be aware that you will never really 'sterilise' wounds properly as there are always resistant bacteria knocking around. You might be surprised to hear what is alive and healthy inside your old bottle of TCP!

 

[_mark_]

Ah dettol...my old friend...the memories!