The ideal Bushcraft Stove?

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Podcast Bob

Full Member
I've tried plumbers braizing mats before and also the fire insulation material used in commercial stove manufacture, however both burn through after a few uses. It might be the same but I need to check it out.

like everything, obtaining the material is one thing, working with it and making tooling is another. If it is too specialised manufacturers don't want to touch it.

worth a look though.
 

Jared

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2005
3,405
644
50
Wales
Not sure this is an appropriate thread but this looked an interesting design. Currently kickstarting, though seems rather expensive for 3 pieces of stainless imo.

http://www.vertexoutdoors.com/


Relies on the springiness of the two sides to hold it all together.
 

Podcast Bob

Full Member
Thanks and yes I have seen it before. I think he may have a customer too a while back. Small world eh lol!

Anyway this more basic design isn't what I'm trying to collate here. But worth seeing once again as each design suggests a different way of approaching the same challenge.
 

tallywhacker

Forager
Aug 3, 2013
117
0
United Kingdom
I am looking at wood stoves now, i must say yours are some of the best out there.

My perspective is that bushcraft is not simply camp crafting. Ultra light hiking and camp crafting are different things, however, both encompass bush crafting if you choose. I have no idea why people always think they are mutually exclusive, they are not at all.

With that in mind, here is what i would like from a stove but am yet to find.

Does material matter? Aluminium or Stainless.
To me yes. A titanium and Stainless model would be ideal, one for bushcrafting wanderers, one for bush crafting car campers. Aluminium is just compromise to both imo. At the end of the day most won't care aside cost, but why not use the time/money spent R+D by yourselves on a more expensive light option? I mean those of us who want light pay a premium even if sales might not be staggering while camp crafters want something they can throw at a tank to stop it.

Does final weight matter? Less than or more than a kilo
Yes, less for both camp crafting/camping AND for the wanderers amongst us.

Does size matter (Oooo darling!)? As small as possible or big as a Frontier Stove
It would make sense to have something a bit bigger than the hive. I would like to see a box or rectangle to make good use of space for pots and bbq. Something that can fit multiple smaller pots (say 4x1L tall pots) / bbq burgers for a group / give a respectful fire for use and heat. The hive/honey stove seem to better suit a single larger pot. I think where i am coming from is it would be nice to have something to replace a small fire, something as a real option where we can't have a camp fire. Nothing massive though, 1 foot square is probably about what i would prefer give or take. It would a be a real waste to see yet another small stove, you have those covered.

What type of cooking would you like to do? In a pot/pan, on a grill, on a hot plate
Pot/pan, BBQ (with diffuser and grill perhaps for when flames are high). I guess a hot plate attachment would come in use but i guess it would be a bulky thick thing, hence optional or at east can be left at home.

Ease of construction? Clip, hinged, separate parts
Not too fussed myself. I would prefer flat like the hive, but to lock in place. lostworlds method looks good, just something to stop it falling to bits if a kid knocks it by accident.

Flexibilty with other stoves? Drop in Trangia or Coke Can Stove
Not fussed, although it is probably easy to implement either way.

Flat pack or tubular? Ease of packing or fit inside some pot
Easy packing every time, so flat for something of the size i suggest. Pots vary, why risk losing pack space for no particular reason? This is something that only real works with small stoves for me.

Free standing? In built ash tray to prevent scarring on campsites
Yes on both accounts, else a fire would be better imo.

Height? Does it need to be below a certain height or above
Short enough to allow a campfire to light up the area a bit, a diffuser plate could be used opposed to extra height for cooking. Best of both worlds. Diffusers are great.

Woodgas or not? Adds a lot to manufacture and on small stoves seems no great advantage
Not. I see no need for the extra efficiency for what i would use it for. Woodgas is great for solo use where you are gathering twigs though.

Simplicity? What about a simple grill and nothing else. Can't get much simpler than that
It would be a shame not to address the fact that in many areas fires cannot be used. You have grills and great smaller burners. Plus we probably all have a grill and ability to make one.

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

I would use my old Moskosel/Tentipi "Eldspis" (small) almost exclusively if it did not rust (they have no intention of releasing it in stainless or Ti, I asked) and it was a bit nicer about leaving fire-scars.
* Flatpack (fits in most backpack sidepockets)
* Able to handle a variety of pots
* Able to handle bigger pieces of firewood (i.e. you can cook things for more than 15 min without going crazy)

IMG_1133.jpg

That is with a 12 and 14 cm zebra for scale

Also works in winter:
eldspis-vinter.jpg

In short something similar to this, with legs, a removable diffuser AND grill for the top, an opening to top up the wood and a titanium option.. I guess that is a hybrid of this and the emberlit or bushbox.
 
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tallywhacker

Forager
Aug 3, 2013
117
0
United Kingdom
In addition i see you are looking along the lines of the bush box. It was their over engineering that has put me off, plus the XL is not quite big enough. It would be great to see size options on this stove you are making. We all have different wants i guess.

Going off common pot sizes:
'XL' - 4x medium 15cm-ish pots for the larger family. - Say a 35 cm square opening for a little space between pots.
'Standard' - 4 small 10cm-ish pots for a couple, small family, hiking group. - Say a 25cm square opening for a little space between pots.
'Mini' - 2 small alpkit/evernew style pots [like the mytipot1350, mytipot900 or mytimugs, very common styles and sizes] - Say 25x12.5 or 31x15.5cm, probably the latter is more universal since it will take most small pot/frying pan combo's.


They would also take nests well, for example:

Using the sizes given the 'standard' would have a cross section of just over 35cm corner to corner, allowing 15cm pots in opposing corners with 10cm pots in the other opposing corners (with a little wiggle room); that has common small nests covered. The 'standard' would get my money in a heart beat for a group stove [2+].

The 'XL' would have a cross section of just over 49 cm corner to corner, allowing for two 24 cm pots in opposing corners and 11cm pots in the other opposing corners (with a little wiggle room). 24 cm is rather big, so drop that down to 20cm if desired for the larger pans and increase to 15cm for the smaller pans if desired; that has larger nests covered. I personally wouldn't carry something this big aside from campsite camping, but others would.

Nests of approx 10-15cm and 15-20cm seem quite common. These formats could actually take slightly larger pot sizes (say an extra cm +/-) in a 4 pot config since the nest will decrease in size. Rectangular versions for larger stoves i think will restrict flexibility with pots (no massive stew pot for instance). A square would likely also pack more uniformly if one piece sides are used, and relatively speaking should have a better 'pack size:usable space ratio' in comparison which will matter more for larger stoves.

The 'mini' comes into it's own by being compact enough for 1-2 people yet not overlaping with the honey/hive in size. I think a 2:1 ratio would be best with two alpkit or evernew style pots in mind (two pots or burgers, leaving the trangia free for a brew). There area good number of pot/pan combo's <= 15.5cm, so unless the weight is vastly different i would use the larger of the two 'mini' diameters. It might seem daft to cater to these designs of pots, but alpkit mimick popular models, evernew are a huge brand. Both brands are expensive to replace, whereas ss billy cans can be picked up cheaply to suit and many come in to those measures anyway. The larger stated dimensions for the 'mini' make more sense unless you are a true gram weenie, especially since you won't have the same options for a larger pot as you would on the 'standard' or 'xl' square designs. i would also buy one of these in titanium for two person use, especially if it catered for <=15.5cm pots.

The standard and mini are arguably a weight saver for UL hiking too if done right on a titanium model. Assuming 3-4 of you use it and would otherwise be carrying a hive/honey stove each to save fuel on an extended trip it probably works out lighter if one person took a large, light box stove and offset their weight by putting some food in friends bags (we have done this before for shared tents etc).. Groups of 3-4 using a 10-12 cm pot each, again, are common. So that is another selling point for the 'standard' and 'mini' dimensions.

Trangia integration seems a low priority on multi pot stoves since you would need multiple trangias. If you have a trangia you probably have a small pot stand [perhaps the pocket stove] too. Basically i wouldn't sacrafice functionality of any form to accomadate a trangia, if it is easy and won't impede the wood burner in any way though sure.

If only one was going to be made the 'standard' would cover the common nests, cook 4 decent sized burgers and fit in most backpacks (assuming each side is one piece); whereas the 'mini' is far more practical for my common trips [1-2 people]. If i factor in my meths burner in combination with the 'mini' it would provide space for two 10-12 cm 900ml pots or two big burgers while the trangia handles caffeine. It would be a very hard call if only one where to be made from these sizes i would want the 'mini' and hope for a standard to come out down the line (if it didn't i guess i would buy 2 mini's!).


You then have the hive, honey and pocket for single pot systems of varying sizes ofc. I guess you could add an optional base plate and flame diffuser (just a second bottom panel perhaps?) to newer models to stop ground burn and cook a burger or a few sausages on high flame. That is a very comprehensive range of stoves covering all bases aside woodgas.


Hope this helps in some way.

EDIT: You mentioned testing, mr obsessive here has spare time to test .. ;)
 
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Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,665
McBride, BC
Nice ideas. Not style but what? Just exactly what are you going to cook/bake? Shrimp? Eggs? Beans? Bread?
The arguments for size and weight are far lesser in my mind to what I plan to cook and eat.
Any improvements to what I use now must be an order of magnitude better.
An entire set of Unobtanium pots won't help at all. Judging on trip length, I can juggle those things.
If I went east a couple of hours to Jasper National Park for a few nights, my kitchen kit will do little more
than reheat food prepped here at home. Might have to haul an apple pie, too.
At the same time, I'll have a mix ready to do some honest bread! (if the WX is mild.)
For recreation, I hope that I have my first firedrill kit up and running to fool with.
 

tallywhacker

Forager
Aug 3, 2013
117
0
United Kingdom
Nice ideas. Not style but what? Just exactly what are you going to cook/bake? Shrimp? Eggs? Beans? Bread?
The arguments for size and weight are far lesser in my mind to what I plan to cook and eat.
[...]
An entire set of Unobtanium pots won't help at all. Judging on trip length, I can juggle those things.
If I went east a couple of hours to Jasper National Park for a few nights, my kitchen kit will do little more
than reheat food prepped here at home.


I would use it for bbq (burgers, sausages), large stews, say a shared meal that consists of multiple components (curry with rice, while making a brew) if on a short / car trip. On an extended trip [shared use] it would be the same drill of dehydrated sick in a bag. On top cooking it would make a good sized campfire ofc, so i would also cook me :p

As far as pans etc, well i just cut my solo cook kit weight in half to 318 grams while also increasing to two pots (since i can now boil water in my mug without burning my lips on alloy/steel); plus i gained a one person wood burner to save fuel weight with no penalty thus can now make a brew while i cook. That is a switch from an alloy pan, steel mug, brass trangia to an evernew DX stove, alpkit mytimug and mytipot. So it does help to some, but perhaps not others, each to their own on that. If UL doesn't bother you i am sure pots will be the least effected by excess weight [for example you carry non dehydrated food by the sounds of it, i carry a small water filter and dehydrated food for long trips]; when you watch the weight on everything you carry it really adds up. On short trips that means more wine!!

That is a tangent though, on the topic of stoves we are talking a large chunk of metal, a switch in materials can seriously reduce the weight. For example, a single pot hive stove according to BPL "Complete 8 sided kit (Honey Stove Ti and Hive Ti combined) 221g - compared to the Stainless Steal version which weighs 474g" - That is less than half the weight. On a stove around two to three times the mass you saving over half a kilogram at least. Again, to some that matters :)

I see your point on size / weight for a short 2-3 hour walk but some really do care and they pay a premium for titanium gear that is well planned. Seems logical to cover all bases. Several have requested titanium on this thread.

I am sure that UL and non UL people will rarely agree though, but each to their own.
 
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Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
To bob,


Why do you not just hinge the honey and hive stoves? Most peoplejust seem to hate putting the thing together, or the fragility of the connectors. Your wilderness stove could just be a bigger version. In my experience, the sides need to be the same height as the width of the base, otherwise it starts to smoke as it nears the top of the stove.
 

ADz-1983

Native
Oct 4, 2012
1,603
11
Hull / East Yorkshire
To bob,


Why do you not just hinge the honey and hive stoves? Most peoplejust seem to hate putting the thing together, or the fragility of the connectors. Your wilderness stove could just be a bigger version. In my experience, the sides need to be the same height as the width of the base, otherwise it starts to smoke as it nears the top of the stove.

Agreed. That was/is the one thing that got on my nerves with the Honey, having to put it together, especially when cold.
 

Miniwhisk

Forager
Apr 7, 2010
125
0
Gloucestershire
Always loved my vargo titanium meths stove. It has folding legs and pot stand. Drawback is that you have to carry meths which adds weight. Its also not good to rely on meths alone. So I got the woidgas stove too. It fits inside my pot and for the extra weight, I've got two methods to cook and (because I insist on taking it) my Tesco cheapo kettle fits nicely on the wood stove; supplying copoius amounts of hot brew!

On shorter rambles, days out, the Vargo stove gets paired with the Alpkit Kraku gas stove, with small canister.

On occasion, I've taken all three!

http://www.bergzeit.co.uk/vargo-tri...rc=henkatenk&gclid=CLzC8N_iqsMCFQ6WtAod2wIA3Q

https://www.alpkit.com/products/kraku

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_4j8pkpl20d_e

Having tried other stoves over the years, the above are now my tried, tested and most loved.
 

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