The End of Internet Knife Sales. Law change could target one-hand opening folders

[Jackroadkill]

http://www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/WX2TN/

This is the link in which one can offer the Home Office one's opinions.

 

[Leshy]

Nigeltm nails it .

It's a sad state of affairs, and it's up to us to protest it and oppose it.

 

[nigeltm]

For that to be the case every type of assisted opening knife would have had to have been used in a crime which has been brought to court and the case against it won. I think the point here is that auto knives are being sold that are trying to bypass the current law (flippers and that type of thing I assume?) And the government wants to get them included in the current definition. The thing to get clear is how the definition will be written but so far i see no threat to any one handed folders thatvdont have an inbuilt assisted opening mechanism.

If that was the case then Harris VS DPP 1991,which set the precedent that lock knives were tantamount to fixed blades, would only have applied to they type of mechanism in that instance.

The case law does not differentiate between liner locks, barrel knives, back locks, etc. All lockable knives are covered.

In the same way, all assisted opening knives would/could be covered by a single instance of case law. I find it hard to believe that there has not been once instance of an assisted opening knife being used in a criminal act which has gone to court since flick knives were prohibited in 1959. Assuming there have been such cases then there has been opportunity for the CPS to ask the court to rule that they are the same as flick knives but this has not been done. Therefore, I assume that in the eyes of the (current) law an assisted opening knife is not considered to be the same as a flick knife and there is no legal basis for reclassification.

This is a media stunt and minority public appeasement attempt by the government.

 

[Kepis]

Survey completed .

 

[mikehill]

Survey done here

 

[Kepis]

snip.... I think the point here is that auto knives are being sold that are trying to bypass the current law (flippers and that type of thing I assume?) And the government wants to get them included in the current definition. The thing to get clear is how the definition will be written but so far i see no threat to any one handed folders thatvdont have an inbuilt assisted opening mechanism.

That's the way i understand it too, the definition is unclear (probably on purpose) as to what will constitute one handed opening, i use a folding utility knife for work that can be opened one handed, does that mean it will become outlawed as it's classified as a flick knife or will it be legal as it's a tool of my trade? As i read and understand the proposal, rightly or wrongly, they are looking to include flipper knives, but as it stands the proposal can also be construed as including thumb studs and Spyderco holes, like i said the definition is unclear and we need to make sure we ask our illustrious leaders for clarification on this.

 

[Mesquite]

That's the way i understand it too, the definition is unclear (probably on purpose) as to what will constitute one handed opening, i use a folding utility knife for work that can be opened one handed, does that mean it will become outlawed as it's classified as a flick knife or will it be legal as it's a tool of my trade? As i read and understand the proposal, rightly or wrongly, they are looking to include flipper knives, but as it stands the proposal can also be construed as including thumb studs and Spyderco holes, like i said the definition is unclear and we need to make sure we ask our illustrious leaders for clarification on this.

Trouble is they won't give you a clarification on it least ways one which will be written into law.

They'll fudge about on it and say it's one to be decided in court so there's a legal precedent set, same as happened for lock knives

 

[daveO]

That's the way i understand it too, the definition is unclear (probably on purpose) as to what will constitute one handed opening, i use a folding utility knife for work that can be opened one handed, does that mean it will become outlawed as it's classified as a flick knife or will it be legal as it's a tool of my trade? As i read and understand the proposal, rightly or wrongly, they are looking to include flipper knives, but as it stands the proposal can also be construed as including thumb studs and Spyderco holes, like i said the definition is unclear and we need to make sure we ask our illustrious leaders for clarification on this.

From the consultation document wording it looks like they will just broaden the existing definition so it isnt so restrictive. But yes it is worth making sure that one handed folders are kept out of it by association.

Small makers should read the Impacts Assessment document as there is a section in there about making sure the new laws dont adversely affect smaller companies. Read, abosorb and respond. So far the onsultation is assuming royal mail will step up with a new facility to allow age check at post offices but without this in place there is no way for small makers to work within the proposed legislation.

 

[John Fenna]

Survey completed

 

[daveO]

From the knife law article:

'The Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 banned the carrying, manufacture, sale, purchase, hire or lending of 'flick-knives' (knives operated by a button or spring on the handle, also called switchblades or automatic knives) and 'gravity knives' (knives which drop open through gravity when a mechanism releases it. If you have one I will dispose of this rare and unusual item for you for a reasonable fee!). A succession of cases has also decided that an automatic knife is an offensive weapon full stop. You may keep one you already have in your home but that's it. Obviously an automatic knife has few bushcraft applications but it is worth recognising the seriousness with which the law treats them. Carry one and if caught you will go to prison.'

Gov.uk says:

'flick knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’) - a blade hidden inside a handle which shoots out when a button is pressed'

From what i can tell they are proposing to change the definition so a flick knife that doesnt use a button or a handle mounted mechanism is still classed as a flick knife.

The definitions will probably have to be made much more specific though as a stanley knife is operated by a button on the handle and is clearly not illegal. The automatic part is the key i think and if anyone is writting a response or filling in questionaires then that is something to emphasise.

 

[MartinK9]

Survey completed for what it's worth.

 

[Jared]

Isn't a stanley a one hand opening knife?

 

[nitrambur]

Isn't a stanley a one hand opening knife?

Yes, but there is NO mention of "one handed" in the consultation document.

Please don't start the Chinese whispers, you write to your MP about the change regarding one hand openers, he/she stands up and ask about the change referring to it as the one-hand-opening change and before you know it everyone will be calling it that and they will get lumped in and banned!

 

[Jared]

Yes, but there is NO mention of "one handed" in the consultation document.

Please don't start the Chinese whispers, you write to your MP about the change regarding one hand openers, he/she stands up and ask about the change referring to it as the one-hand-opening change and before you know it everyone will be calling it that and they will get lumped in and banned!

They intend to broaden the definition of flick knives. Basically they're going after flippers, and other assisted openers. And no doubt looking at Germany's law 42 where one handed opening and that lock are banned.

 

[nitrambur]

They intend to broaden the definition of flick knives. Basically they're going after flippers, and other assisted openers. And no doubt looking at Germany's law 42 where one handed opening and that lock are banned.

Please refer to post #16, the intention is plainly stated http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147246&p=1833740#post1833740

 

[Jared]

Please refer to post #16, the intention is plainly stated http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147246&p=1833740#post1833740

Wishful thinking. We all know how the definition of gravity knives is abused. Anything opened with a flick of a thumb is going to be pulled in. Basically anything with bearings, washers or just well made that opens freely once a detent is disengaged.

 

[Bishop]

These documents are either insane or I've misread them
Apparently I can legally walk through town openly carrying a shotgun BUT if stopped and searched then I will be arrested for the straight razor in my wash kit?

 

[daveO]

Yes, but there is NO mention of "one handed" in the consultation document.

Please don't start the Chinese whispers, you write to your MP about the change regarding one hand openers, he/she stands up and ask about the change referring to it as the one-hand-opening change and before you know it everyone will be calling it that and they will get lumped in and banned!

It doesnt help that Heinnie Haynes are sending out shameless scaremongering emails. Did anyone actually see those as anything other than a marketing ploy? I hope people had more sense.

If anyone is writing to their MP then please stick to the facts or your letter will just be ignored.

 

[Janne]

It will be interesting how the law change will be.

I do not get this: if the seller declares on the package it contains knitting needles, he can send it without any checks and be collected by a 3 year old.
Knifes - collected by over-18.

So I guess the criminally minded will buy knifes from sellers that are happy to mis describe the content of the package?
The international online trade is already doing that with several illegal goods like medication, legal highs and so on.

I know exactly the design if the oldfashioned spring assisted flick knives. The new proposal, what is the change? Which of todays knives will be banned?

 

[Janne]

What is even more worrying is the proposal to ban .50 cal rifles snd what is described as “rapid firing rifles”.

To my mind the calibre ban sounds like a way to start banning certain types of calibres or cartridges, the other one is a way to eventually ban all semi automatic guns.