The Crooked knife or Mocotaugan (pics heavy)

[jojo]

The Native People of North America seemed to have thought the Crooked Knife or to use their names for the tool Mocotaugan, was, alongside an axe and a knife, an absolutely indispensable tool they could use to make everything they needed, from working on a birchbark canoe, to making snow shoes and all sorts of things.

For some reason, it does not seem to have interested people involved in Bushcraft that much.

I am not talking about the Scandinavian hook knife which is a different tool.

I have to say I like the crooked knife myself, and have made quite a few over the past 2/3 years.

So, here are a few of mine:


The first one I made had a straight out blade. I didn't use it long because it didn't work that well for me. The second had a swept back blade, better but not quite right yet.

This is the straightest handled crooked knife I have made. Quite a nice little tool.

Still my favourite, I like the antler handle, it's was just the right shape for my hand. The spoon was made entirely with it, although the curve is a bit flatter that it would need to be for hollowing the bowl of the spoon. Easily cured by making another crooked knife with a tighter curve!

The handle on this was made out of a bit of splintered bit of Oak from the fire pile.

This one was sent to a Canadian Native American man!

It takes a little effort to get used to the hand position (palm up) but once you get the hang of it it's a really good tool. These all have 2mm thick blades and work well, but I think that for a all purpose work-horse, I would make the blade slightly thicker, 2.5 to 3mm at the base reducing the thickness at the tip.

Thanks for looking.

 

[DavidJT]

Nice, are you taking orders?

 

[Whittler Kev]

Look good
Quick question - Are the blades held on just with the "tag" and binding?

 

[BorderReiver]

Nice use of handle materials Jojo.

 

[jojo]

Are the blades held on just with the "tag" and binding?

I have used different ways of holding the blades into the handles. glued with epoxy, bolted though the tang to the handle, the crooked knife with the handle made out of the splintered Oak, has a long tang through the handle and pinned over, glued with pine tar/beeswax/pine resin mix. Apart form the antler handle, which is epoxy glued, I used a binding, simply because I like the more traditional look on my tools.

Nice use of handle materials Jojo

Thanks. One of the pleasures of making your own stuff, you can use what you fancy!

Nice, are you taking orders?

I do, if it's interesting enough..:And crooked knives are...

 

[FGYT]

Nice mix of handles :You_Rock_

Was trying to find some of your old threads when making mine should have just PMed

the blade i made is 3mm and is definatly solid and wont bend

ATB

Duncan

 

[Night Phoenix]

Beautifull

 

[jojo]

Nice mix of handles :You_Rock_

Was trying to find some of your old threads when making mine should have just PMed

the blade i made is 3mm and is definatly solid and wont bend

ATB

Duncan

Thanks Duncan.. You should have done mate. Any pics of your knife and have I missed a thread somewhere?

My next ones will have thicker blades, at least on what I'd call an All Purpose crooked knife. 3mm would be too thick on small more delicate, carving, crooked knives.

 

[FGYT]

Thanks Duncan.. You should have done mate. Any pics of your knife and have I missed a thread somewhere?

My next ones will have thicker blades, at least on what I'd call an All Purpose crooked knife. 3mm would be too thick on small more delicate, carving, crooked knives.

no you didnt mis it but may not have seen the finished pics (well working proto finished )

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47354

my main consern is its a little big etc but i am trying to make a Do all version so it will compromise some where
in fact for ease of hollowing ive started to bevel the outside of the curved end as well as thin and bevel the back outside edge sort of a spoon knife stuck on the end of a Crooked knife :BlueTeamE

ATB

Duncan

PS do you have any of those Adzes with the blade tied to the top of a No 7 shaped bit of wood ??

no no..........got an ULU i need to finish

 

[robin wood]

For some reason, it does not seem to have interested people involved in Bushcraft that much.

Nice looking knives Joel. Interesting to read your quote above yet there suddenly seems to be a whole lot of interest in them. Did I hear that a certain someone had been using one on the TV?

I first saw these 15 years ago when I watched the film "Caesars bark canoe" still the ultimate woodcraft film for me. 67 year old Cesar Newashish went off into the woods, felled a birch peeled it and made the most gorgeous canoe using a very dodgy axe, penknife and mocotaugan. I went straight out and forged one myself. If you have not seen this before watch and be amazed. http://www.nfb.ca/film/Cesars_Bark_Canoe/

Personally I don't use them much. I prefer scandinavian hooks for deep hollowing and have a dawknife and shave horse which is much faster for say shaping a canoe paddle. Again being European I tend to get the slicing cuts using various grips with a knife held askew rather than having the skewed handle. It is a joy to see someone use one of these well though.

One person has done more than any other for keeping the skills and knowledge of mocataugans alive and bringing them to the new generation and that is Henri Vailancourt who has been building birch bark canoes full time since 1965.
http://www.birchbarkcanoe.net/crooked-knife.htm

 

[John Fenna]

That Ceasar is truely inspirational - one of my all time favourites too!
But I too find the crooked knife "unusual" to work with...

 

[jojo]

no you didnt mis it

Hermmm...what have I done with my marbles...

Did I hear that a certain someone had been using one on the TV?

Ya got a suspicious mind Mr Wood...

It might be a tad heavy carrying a draw knife and a saw horse when you go off into the woods!! Personally I also like to use a bandsaw to rough out my wood but that would also be a tad on the heavy side...

I often think about what is the appropriate tool in various situations. If I am at home, the bandsaw is the quickest ( for the sort of work I tend to do) If I was walking in the back of beyond, the crooked knife could well be an appropriate tool to take, light, does not take much space, can perform many tasks, including hollowing, although I am sure that, with good technique, its possible to make many things without it.

But it's fun to conjecture and try different tools and learn different techniques. As they say, variety is the spice of life!

 

[Chopper]

Here you go.

 

[familne]

Very nice indeed

 

[gunnix]

Hermmm...what have I done with my marbles...



Ya got a suspicious mind Mr Wood...

It might be a tad heavy carrying a draw knife and a saw horse when you go off into the woods!! Personally I also like to use a bandsaw to rough out my wood but that would also be a tad on the heavy side...

I often think about what is the appropriate tool in various situations. If I am at home, the bandsaw is the quickest ( for the sort of work I tend to do) If I was walking in the back of beyond, the crooked knife could well be an appropriate tool to take, light, does not take much space, can perform many tasks, including hollowing, although I am sure that, with good technique, its possible to make many things without it.

But it's fun to conjecture and try different tools and learn different techniques. As they say, variety is the spice of life!

Since you started this discussion I'd like to add a few words myself. I've also been thinkering a lot about the crooked knife and have used it a quite a bit, during canoe building (shaping a thwart and the outer railings), building benches and paddle making, like the paddle I posted here recently (with the modified mora hoof knife). But I'm not too sure yet which combination I would take:

-Scandi knife and folding knife (thin blade), axe, crooked knife and spoon knife (I much prefer this to carve hollows)

or
- The same tools except for a block plane instead of a crooked knife.

The plane works wonders for me and I can use it one handed as well. Small to carry and has a smoother (flatter) surface as a result. It's also idiotproof
If I need to plane bent surfaces I can use the knife.

I do like the crooked knife but it looses against the plane. Though that's not strange as I've used a plane a lot in shipbuilding.

Saying this, I have ordered a knife from you, Joel, and I have also been waiting for some time on a crooked knife from Vaillancourt. So then I will test two crooked knives which should be some of the best on the market. I'll let you know the results

On a sidenote:
I've also seen the crooked knife from Svante before it was on telly, a first prototype my teacher was testing (Svante started blacksmithing on the school). It looked a bit strange, like a big spoon knife, not really the idea I got about a crooked knife, having read all the books and websites about it.. My teacher wasn't to impressed about it either, saying he could do all of it better with a scandi knife and a spoon knife. Though the steel is of very good quality, as always from Svante.

 

[Whittler Kev]

crooked knife and spoon knife (I much prefer this to carve hollows)

What's the difference between a crook and a spoon knife. (pics might help to describe the difference if possible)

 

[gunnix]

These are spoon knives
Used for carving out the hollow in the spoon, or for kuksa's , and so on.

This is a crooked knife
Mainly used for planing, but some designs have a curved tip making it possible to carve out hollows too, but not as easy as with a dedicated spoon knife.