been taken down no shock
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-his-hostages-Karl-Ness-and-Qhuram-Awan.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-his-hostages-Karl-Ness-and-Qhuram-Awan.html
That Chap Evading the Authorities in Northumberland
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Southey your badly trying to hint at the frogs from Poole they aint all that,more so since then swung the door open to anyone.
If your down that way drop in and say high to Stevie parmentar and Danny Glase,think Jason Marshall has uprooted,wayne climbing the ranks tho.
MCT are about done imo these days.
but there are plenty of other units and worse that dont even get blip
Last i'll mention who needs Hats in civvie st
If your down that way drop in and say high to Stevie parmentar and Danny Glase,think Jason Marshall has uprooted,wayne climbing the ranks tho.
MCT are about done imo these days.
but there are plenty of other units and worse that dont even get blip
Last i'll mention who needs Hats in civvie st
Commander SF informed UK police many years ago that they couldnt and wouldnt have the Recourses to deal with internal problems including terroist which is why UK Armed units have uppeed their training and Weapons Issue over the last several years Now G36 have replaced MP5 for longer range engagments and ARV as well as Tactical Units train lots in Entry and House clearance CQB and Live fire ETR stuff including using some of the village ranges used for Afgan and Iraq training etc
etc they may be a few advisors about Rtd etc but SF wont be deployed and definatly not for one guy
E&E should be quite easy a simple car trip of a few hundred miles will do it we arnt in an occupied country with check points and no real command of the local language here or restricted by Training area boundaries
ATB
Duncan
Hello j4c3, No i'm not badly hinting at anything, i'm openly talking about pj's or for those who have not heard of them, parachute jump rescue specialists there apart of the usaf, I am in complete awe of them, there the guys who go through the superman school in Florida, I met a couple who were co-located at the back of a hanger we were in when the AAC sqn I was with, was based at B.I.A.P.
I don't know any of the names you mention, as I have never met a shakey.
ATB Southey
I don't know any of the names you mention, as I have never met a shakey.
ATB Southey
The prime mover behind civpol uprating the capabilities of their firearms teams was the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, which effectively placed responsibility upon the civilian authorities to take the lead role in all matters relating to civil protection and 'resilience'. It's also why Trumpton suddenly started acquiring CBRN kit, for example, and so on. Whilst military aid to the civilian community is still available, the occasions when it may be required are far fewer, and will normally be restricted to things the civilian side can't do e.g. heavy lift helo capability. I attended a number of meetings at the Cabinet Office about military assistance to civilian authorities, and am familiar with the concept of ops and execution of the response to this type of incident.
I hadn't heard that Dir SF felt he had insufficient assets to undertake all anti-terrorist operations, but it's academic - it's now primarily a police role, with SF assets available to assist if needed, in the same way that EOD will assist police, although these things are very much multi-agency. Police tactical units and SF used to train together at one location I was based at, and on at least one occasion worked together from there. I once went to my garage, and had a heart-stopping moment when a plod ninja popped up from behind the car! Bizarrely, the same place has featured as a location in several tv police series, sometimes with tv police carrying out similar ops to those practiced there by the real thing.
I don't think we can say definitely one way or the other that SF will or will not be involved in any way, though I agree that we won't be seeing any Princes Gate-stylee teams cutting about Northumberland. One of SF's great capabilities is endurance, which is unlikely to be a feature of the Rothbury drama.
I noted from the news this morning that the local hunt and gamekeepers were helping police, which seems eminently sensible.
It's interesting that whilst it would probably be easy for Moat to have got away early on, and it would seem to be the obvious tactic, he seems to have stuck to places he knows (perhaps because those helping him are co-located).
Hi scarlet.
I am not sure how I forgot some of the other elements of UKSFG, as I mentioned them in my post?
I will admit it is a few years since I last worked directly with them (me being ex green slime, but finding no need for morse lol) But am wondering about the operational harmony stuff.......This is something that disappeared from many units a long time ago.
Ok, I will concede that Herrick is not full scale war (unless you talk to many of the folks there right now of course), but then it demands more resources than the UK can maintain from all three services (and we cannot even run all of our own ops with out outside help, so we cant even maintain what we are doing now). So, it may not be full scale but is the largest single venture the entire UK's armed forces can MAINTAIN, so call it what you like, but it is still the biggest thing we can do!
I am not sure how I forgot some of the other elements of UKSFG, as I mentioned them in my post?
I will admit it is a few years since I last worked directly with them (me being ex green slime, but finding no need for morse lol) But am wondering about the operational harmony stuff.......This is something that disappeared from many units a long time ago.
Ok, I will concede that Herrick is not full scale war (unless you talk to many of the folks there right now of course), but then it demands more resources than the UK can maintain from all three services (and we cannot even run all of our own ops with out outside help, so we cant even maintain what we are doing now). So, it may not be full scale but is the largest single venture the entire UK's armed forces can MAINTAIN, so call it what you like, but it is still the biggest thing we can do!
I met quite a few PJs in Bastion recently - they operate with the Pedro helicopters. No para jumps out there, but they have very good clinical skills. I have to say (but may be slightly biased) that the RAF MERT has the edge in Helmand - the Chinook offers a better workspace, carries more kit, and MERT has a consultant anaesthetist and ED nurse as well as paramedics.
A few years ago I worked with Pedro on a joint exercise in the US; I also worked with a US Army Dustoff crew in Germany on exercise. All noduf flights, and top quality flying and medical skills.
Seen.
Harmony is aspirational in some cases, but is becoming important again. Certain people come and go, or course, and don't do standard tours.
I was on Herrick 11b, and the lovely Mrs SP is out there at the moment (and has just been extended by three weeks - arrse). It was certainly busy, but not overwhelmingly so. As you say, though, we can't do anything on our own - not only can the army not man a field hospital without help from the RN and RAF, they have been using civilian contract nurses as well for a long time. None of it would work without the huge number of civilian contractors (though why we don't contract out the airbridge is beyond me) - over 40% of support services are civilian, and the MOD want to make it even more. So yes, I agree that it's the biggest we can do within the constraints imposed by successive defence cuts, but it's a long way from a conventional war.
Oh I agree with you on the overall capabilty of the MERT team, it's just vast skill's that the individual Pj has that impresses me.
Hi Korvin.
First off, I was just curious as to why you thought evading was easy, and wondered if you had any life or death experience of it.
You may well be right that this bloke is long gone, and I have no idea if the police are doing anything wrong. I do know they are generally not natural searchers, and also have virtually no practice in this type of area. They are hampered IMHO by having a force which is far too small, and further hampered by using officers from different forces who will not know the area or local community. This leads to a slow down in communication and intelligence gathering. The officers will also know that if they fire one shot, then they will be suspended pending the normal shots fired investigation. They will further know that their names will become known, and this will have an effect on their future career.
Further police are not natural shooters (generally), and their mindset follows the path that once anyone is shot they are instantly a casualty, and become a priority for the silver or gold commander on scene.
This is clearly a differing approach to that used by the army, where opposition casualties can be dealt with later.
Given that this man (the fugitive) has already used deadly force, it is also not a job for unarmed officers, so given there are so few armed ones available, then the police have no need to rush into anything (being risk assessment aware, and in line with policy). IMHO the only folks wanting the local police to speed up are the media.
I understand the police have to search the locality, and this is what we see happening in the press/media, but also understand that there is a reward (which indicates the police feel he may be elsewhere!), and that other forces also have the description of the man.
IF this bloke is in a wooded area in the locality of the crimes, then the assistance of the RAF could be a real help. Yet again the media are reporting stupid speeds for the aircraft and incomprehensible flight paths, but the reality is that if RAPTOR (a recce pod)is used then it could be a real help, as it can look for so much more than the the police helicopters can.
First off, I was just curious as to why you thought evading was easy, and wondered if you had any life or death experience of it.
You may well be right that this bloke is long gone, and I have no idea if the police are doing anything wrong. I do know they are generally not natural searchers, and also have virtually no practice in this type of area. They are hampered IMHO by having a force which is far too small, and further hampered by using officers from different forces who will not know the area or local community. This leads to a slow down in communication and intelligence gathering. The officers will also know that if they fire one shot, then they will be suspended pending the normal shots fired investigation. They will further know that their names will become known, and this will have an effect on their future career.
Further police are not natural shooters (generally), and their mindset follows the path that once anyone is shot they are instantly a casualty, and become a priority for the silver or gold commander on scene.
This is clearly a differing approach to that used by the army, where opposition casualties can be dealt with later.
Given that this man (the fugitive) has already used deadly force, it is also not a job for unarmed officers, so given there are so few armed ones available, then the police have no need to rush into anything (being risk assessment aware, and in line with policy). IMHO the only folks wanting the local police to speed up are the media.
I understand the police have to search the locality, and this is what we see happening in the press/media, but also understand that there is a reward (which indicates the police feel he may be elsewhere!), and that other forces also have the description of the man.
IF this bloke is in a wooded area in the locality of the crimes, then the assistance of the RAF could be a real help. Yet again the media are reporting stupid speeds for the aircraft and incomprehensible flight paths, but the reality is that if RAPTOR (a recce pod)is used then it could be a real help, as it can look for so much more than the the police helicopters can.
I always wonder about the air bridge too, we use enough charter flights when going to cypress,falklands and such, unless they don't want to whole hartedly rely on civair incase of situations lijke the current cabincrew dispute. would that even effect them.
Scarlet Pimpernel.
I am sorry to hear your other half's time has been extended (whether she minds or not)
As you have worked with the pedro's (sorry but going off topic here) I am sure you will agree they are lions of people. It was with much sadness that I learned of the death of a crew recently...Especially as they were providing cover for another pedro black hawk to rescue some Brits. These folks and the MERT gang are people apart in my eyes.
Sorry to go off topic, and into another direction, but it is rare for me to talk to someone who understands how things are.
As for the airbridge (slaps wrist for going off topic again), I can give you two reasons, which you probably already know, and don't make much sense either:
The gear (not troops) is not supposed to be 'seen' by non British military, which leads to loads of kit being left just outside of theatre.
The government would have to admit the RAF's kit is broken, if they civilianised everything!
I have to say I find it weird that gear (think vehicles here aswell) can arrived in the UK from the USA in an old DC8 (the yellow one), and then is flown to near theatre by the RAF, but cannot go all the way civvy, as it is 'secret'
I am sorry to hear your other half's time has been extended (whether she minds or not)
As you have worked with the pedro's (sorry but going off topic here) I am sure you will agree they are lions of people. It was with much sadness that I learned of the death of a crew recently...Especially as they were providing cover for another pedro black hawk to rescue some Brits. These folks and the MERT gang are people apart in my eyes.
Sorry to go off topic, and into another direction, but it is rare for me to talk to someone who understands how things are.
As for the airbridge (slaps wrist for going off topic again), I can give you two reasons, which you probably already know, and don't make much sense either:
The gear (not troops) is not supposed to be 'seen' by non British military, which leads to loads of kit being left just outside of theatre.
The government would have to admit the RAF's kit is broken, if they civilianised everything!
I have to say I find it weird that gear (think vehicles here aswell) can arrived in the UK from the USA in an old DC8 (the yellow one), and then is flown to near theatre by the RAF, but cannot go all the way civvy, as it is 'secret'
Pedro, Dustoff and MERT are legends.
What's incredible is that the RAF MERT paramedics are still on the lowest payband.
Anyway, whilst we're off topic, here's a pic for Southey:
A PJ handing over a patient at Bastion's UK R3 MTF. You can see how the ambulances can now stop right next to the resus bays if necessary (i.e. not the main ED entrance).
What's incredible is that the RAF MERT paramedics are still on the lowest payband.
Anyway, whilst we're off topic, here's a pic for Southey:
A PJ handing over a patient at Bastion's UK R3 MTF. You can see how the ambulances can now stop right next to the resus bays if necessary (i.e. not the main ED entrance).
Seems they've got Moat cornered now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-off-with-police-holding-gun-to-his-head.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-off-with-police-holding-gun-to-his-head.html
Only question now is who pulls the trigger first, does he do a Gascoigne and start crying, or does the witness on BBC news who says he looks larger than the pics on telly indicate he's bought nails and fertiliser from B&Q?
Either way it's over.... Hope no trees get burned.
Either way it's over.... Hope no trees get burned.
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Hi all.
As always I am hoping this all ends with everyone walking away un hurt BUT....This is my favourite part of the drama on TV now......Hapless reporters who have absolutely nothing to say, so are talking constant nonsense.
My favourites so far are being told a van was reserving, then driving forward (as we could see it on the screen), and then told police cars are driving by (yet again as they are on screen doing just that)
On the downside, the police are trying to keep the public away, but are constantly being harassed by the press who are trying to creep up on them......Surely the press know they are not helping at all, and could be confused for helpers of moat, but they still keep getting in the way.
Oh hang on.....There's another.......ballistic shields, these offer a degree of protection............(and you thought they were just for roman re enactment days lol).
This one cant be topped I'm sure
"The only man in danger of having a shotgun pointed at HIMSELF, is Moat HIMSELF.........That one was a shock to me! Who would have ever thought pointing a weapon at your own head could be dangerous to yourself!!!
As always I am hoping this all ends with everyone walking away un hurt BUT....This is my favourite part of the drama on TV now......Hapless reporters who have absolutely nothing to say, so are talking constant nonsense.
My favourites so far are being told a van was reserving, then driving forward (as we could see it on the screen), and then told police cars are driving by (yet again as they are on screen doing just that)
On the downside, the police are trying to keep the public away, but are constantly being harassed by the press who are trying to creep up on them......Surely the press know they are not helping at all, and could be confused for helpers of moat, but they still keep getting in the way.
Oh hang on.....There's another.......ballistic shields, these offer a degree of protection............(and you thought they were just for roman re enactment days lol).
This one cant be topped I'm sure
"The only man in danger of having a shotgun pointed at HIMSELF, is Moat HIMSELF.........That one was a shock to me! Who would have ever thought pointing a weapon at your own head could be dangerous to yourself!!!
Cheers SP i'm all excited again,can't wait for august as i'm re-enlisting and should be back in training for a whole different job nothing as cool as that though, perhaps ethey could sort moat out with a predator style area clerance. bring on the vulcan. i'm gunna have me some fun.
did you see the beeb guy talking to the local heritage rep, who basically used the inter view to promo the local area, good on her! the reporter doing his best to sound as if the world was in danger, while she talked about the lovely wide open spaces.
Indeed.
They aren't choosing their vox pops very carefully either:
"I saw police snipers pointing their snipers..."
"He wasn't wearing what you'd expect - a baseball cap and white trainers" What's unexpected about a chav wearing white trainers and a baseball cap?
"There's a load of police in riot gear" Is there going to be public disorder too?
And the star prize to the BBC reporter at Police HQ: "Some senior officers will remain here at HQ" No sh1t Sherlock.
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