Tactical ?

[Robbie Roberson]

Martyn, To answer your first question, I take it into the woods because I like the way it performs. It performs many task that my Hunter could do, but as I said in the previous post, I use it for less demanding jobs, this saves on my Hunters blade edge. It's light weight, takes up very little room in my pocket, clips on easily and is removed easily.
I have no fantasy other than a peaceful relaxing time when I am in the woods. I am a retired police officer, I have had my fair share of fights trying to do my job, and I certainly hope I never have to have a knife fight in the woods. If this ever happens I will find something else to do for fun. The truth is, I have found the design of certain tactical style knives to be very useful doing certain jobs in the woods.
The way these knives are designed, making them useful to me in the woods, probably is an accident. But they do seem to work well doing certain jobs for me, therefore leaving my Hunter to take a rest in it's sheath. And if my tactical breaks or gets dull, then it's not a big deal, I will finish the job with my Hunter. But so far, they have not been broken, and the sharpness has surprised me many times.
I really enjoy using my tactical folders for certain jobs around the camp. And what is so funny, I neve consider the fact they are tactical knives doing these jobs. (They don't realize either so please don't tell them they really don't belong there.) As for the slashing and stabbing in the woods, I hope the only thing that may get to experience this is my dinner, or at worst a canvas tarp.
You guys are great, and I really appreciate the input, it gives me lots of insight as to how most bushcrafters feel about tactical knife use in the woods. And it's ok, at least I know where you stand on these type knives, and that was why the original question was ask. Thanks again for the replies and please enjoy your outings.
Robbie Roberson

 

[leon-1]

I would love to know who coined the phrase "tactical" for knives, I have never seen a knife employ tactics of any form, it may be subdued, but that does not make it tactical.

People are tactical, they employ tactics, a knife is a knife, it is a cutting implement, if it is designed for the military it is a tool used for a specific reason and may be subdued. Without a person to carry or use it a knife is a piece of sharp steel or any other material, it is inanimate and has no will or thought process.

Tactical twaddle.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn, To answer your first question, I take it into the woods because I like the way it performs. It performs many task that my Hunter could do, but as I said in the previous post, I use it for less demanding jobs, this saves on my Hunters blade edge. It's light weight, takes up very little room in my pocket, clips on easily and is removed easily.
I have no fantasy other than a peaceful relaxing time when I am in the woods. I am a retired police officer, I have had my fair share of fights trying to do my job, and I certainly hope I never have to have a knife fight in the woods. If this ever happens I will find something else to do for fun. The truth is, I have found the design of certain tactical style knives to be very useful doing certain jobs in the woods.
The way these knives are designed, making them useful to me in the woods, probably is an accident. But they do seem to work well doing certain jobs for me, therefore leaving my Hunter to take a rest in it's sheath. And if my tactical breaks or gets dull, then it's not a big deal, I will finish the job with my Hunter. But so far, they have not been broken, and the sharpness has surprised me many times.
I really enjoy using my tactical folders for certain jobs around the camp. And what is so funny, I neve consider the fact they are tactical knives doing these jobs. (They don't realize either so please don't tell them they really don't belong there.) As for the slashing and stabbing in the woods, I hope the only thing that may get to experience this is my dinner, or at worst a canvas tarp.
You guys are great, and I really appreciate the input, it gives me lots of insight as to how most bushcrafters feel about tactical knife use in the woods. And it's ok, at least I know where you stand on these type knives, and that was why the original question was ask. Thanks again for the replies and please enjoy your outings.
Robbie Roberson

No offence meant Rob, just expressing an honest opinion.

When I think tactical, I "generally" think of a knife something like this...

To my mind, I can see no reason for carrying something like that into the woods. But I do accept there are all sorts of blades that fall under this category and some of em probably are quite useful for some tasks. The question was looking for a generalised answer tho, so that's what I gave.

If I'm being honest and I saw someone in the woods with a SOG SEAL, my first thought would be "who invited Rambo?" ):

There are so many really good knives out there, there is no need to pick a black coated, clip pointed, saw edged razorback for woodland carry.

 

[Danzo]

This thought has just struck me: do specialist serving military types carry a second knife if they are in an enviroment where they have to utilise bushcraft skills? Or do they just make do with whatever knife (or even bayonet) they have been issued? F'rinstance do deep reconnaissance troops get a Mora or something similiar? I am presuming here that the military must at times make use of bushcraft skills and not just jump in and out of great big helicopters!

:roll:

Danzo

 

[Andy]

The MOD have 6 inch clip point knives which they issue at times. They don't issue them often and I've seen a few different handles over the years. Some have a blue plastic handle and I've seen others with a black gurad and a black rubber looking handle. I think the blades come from the J Rodgers Forge. They may have a sabre grind put on but I'm not sure

 

[C_Claycomb]

Having recently talked with someone in the military, it did sound like there wasn’t much bushcraft involved, mostly he did describe it as helicopters and such. Also, the military almost never issues more than it can get away with, between those two factors the chance of being issued a Mora would seem nil.

I would think that the last place you would want to get bushcrafty with a Mora would be on deep patrol. You want to pass with as little trace as possible, whittling sticks, cutting vegetation and carving stuff would draw unnecessary attention, surely? :?:

Perhaps it would be a good place to point out there are real tactical knives, and things that are marketed as tactical, just as there are real wilderness/survival/bushcraft knives, and those that are marketed as survival knives. There can be a huge difference in design and practicality with both.

If you have a knife that you get on with and can use, whatever it looks like, or other people call it, use it to the full. If (assuming you live somewhere you can get away with such things) you can own one knife that will work for urban utility, self defence :roll: , and wilderness trips, GREAT, you have saved a bundle! If that means you are carrying your Pack-Pal in the inner city, or making fuzz sticks with your Emmerson, so what?

 

[Great Pebble]

I tend to take the view that unless you carry the case to ridiculous extremes (F.S, Klingon Batleht or Carving Jack - all very task specific). That the choice of blade you carry in the woods is as much an issue of fashion as one of utilitarian advantage.

Most fixed blades of quality will perform all of the common tasks required of them if handled with skill, familiarity with a particular blade will have a bearing upon that skill.

I've always used a fairly heavy fixed blade in concert with a quality folder, hence my use of the Dartmoor. It's comfortable for me, so I use it. To my eyes it's absolutely useless for "combat" but still attracts "Rambo" comments from some quarters, probably due to the sawback. Perhaps because of my association with you lot I've been mulling over a smaller fixed blade but I'm as likely to plump for one of the modern K-Bar variants as for a Woodlore or a Falkniven. At the levels of "woodwork" or any other work I'm likely to have to carry out I'd find it just as effective, equally if I ever need to snuff an alien sentry so I can steal his UFO and liberate the planet I'd have as good a chance of spoling his many tentacled day with a micarta handled Woodlore as with the latest in so called tactical cutlery.

Some of us excel in the field of carving, whittling, woodwork, whatever you want to call it. If you achieve a level of craft at which you feel limited by your choice of blade and can actually detect a shortcoming in what you're using and see how it could be improved, then you've a genuine case for utilitarian selectivity. If not, then virtually any solid, well constructed cutting instrument that "feels right" for you will serve you well.

The "fantasy" element may well influence the choice of blade for some, I'd be tempted to say many, and for as long as we're concious of the fact that we're thinking "fantasy" I see no harm in it. The fantasy is as likely to be that of being embued with the skills of Mr. Mears or Mr. Kochanski simply by choosing to use the same tool as it is to be of getting the girl and killing the baddies.

P.S In my experience soldiers tend to purchace two types of knife to supplement their bayonet and occasional issue items, a SAK or multitool (now issue for certain deployments) and a cheap, durable fixed blade, the "blackhawk" was popular at one time I recall. Nothing too fancy as they tend to get lost/nicked with some ease. It will generally be used for everything you're not supposed to use a knife for, and certainly never as a weapon.

 

[RJP]

Having recently talked with someone in the military, it did sound like there wasn’t much bushcraft involved, mostly he did describe it as helicopters and such. Also, the military almost never issues more than it can get away with, between those two factors the chance of being issued a Mora would seem nil.

What about the Fallkniven F1, isn't that standard issue to the Swedish military? That's a pretty good bushcraft knife and is available in "tactical" black?

Rob

 

[Andy]

What about the Fallkniven F1, isn't that standard issue to the Swedish military? That's a pretty good bushcraft knife and is available in "tactical" black?

Rob

first off it isn't standard issue. The F1 is IMO overbuilt for bushcraft needs and could do with a bit of modification of the edge angles to be a great bushcraft knife

As has been said before tacticle can just mean that the knife is black

 

[leon-1]

Having recently talked with someone in the military, it did sound like there wasn’t much bushcraft involved, mostly he did describe it as helicopters and such. Also, the military almost never issues more than it can get away with, between those two factors the chance of being issued a Mora would seem nil.

I agree Chris, as being someone that has been in the military (13 years), and having done a number of courses that would of waranted a knife like a Frosts, or the like I can honestly say that I have never been issued with anything like this and know of no one who has within any of the untis that I have worked with.

Most knives used by military personnel are private purchase, rangeing from leathermans through to SOG, the majority of them carry a small folder and if required something larger (MOD Survival Knife or Machete), I know of people that have bought there own "LARGER KNIVES", Gerber BMF's/LMF's, Buckmasters and the like, but to be honest if you are going to use it for military purpose (smashing ammo crates, digging holes and as a pry bar) you may as well have an MOD survival knife, at least if you break it the military replace it.

Chris is also correct about the bushcraft side of life in some ways, the military DO NOT teach bushcraft, they teach SURVIVAL and military survival has slightly different rules to those of the standard civilian encounter (the people out looking for you are not likely to pump 30 rounds into you if they do find you for civilians) and as such the tools that he will use will also reflect this.

Tools are subdued to be suitable for TACTICAL usage, they are not tactical in themselves, the people who use them, use them in TACTICAL situations.

Remember SWAT does not stand for SPECIAL TACTICAL WEAPONS AND TACTICS, unyet all the kit they use is of a subdued nature.

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Martyn, absolutly no offence taken, this is a very interesting discussion. I was very curious about the overall feeling for the use or carry of knives that fall into this category. I think what has been said so far means that most bushcrafters prefer a more subdued look in their bushcraft knives.
Do you think a "bushcraft design" folder would be used and accepted by bushcrafters ? If so, what would be some of the main "gotta have" features in a bushcraft folder ?
Thanks for your replies.
Robbie Roberson

 

[tomtom]

bushcraft folder.. would this be to compliment the "bushcraft fixedblade" or to take its place?

 

[Carcajou Garou]

To me a tacticle knife would be in the "mind" as Danzo wrote, I would used a Spyderco Rescue knife to cut a seat belt and to me that would be a tacticle use. To solve a problem.
just a thought

 

[Robbie Roberson]

TomTom, only to compliment, in addition too, same handle material, except it would fold and have a VERY strong lock. A lock that you could consider unable to unlock unless you wanted to.
Choose your absolute favorite bushcraft user, then imagine it in a folder as described above, how would this sit with other bushcraft people ? Would there be a use for this kind of knife in the bush ?

Robbie Roberson

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

The Fallkniven F1 is issued by the swedish airforce to pilots. The F1 and S1 are approved for use by US crews. Sadly, fallkniven's future is uncertain at present. Peter has sufered 2 heart attacks and is looking for a buyer @ 2 million Euros. If no buyer is found they will simply stop production and let existing stocks exaust. The F1 was never meant to be a bushcraft knife.It's a survival knife by design and intent ( and a good one too.)