Tactical ?

[Robbie Roberson]

Opinions please, tactical knives, we all hear the phrase. Do we we all assume it means a different kind of knife for use in a different area ? What does tactical knife really mean, and does this mean that we as Bushcrafters should not use a "tactical" knife in the bushcraft practice ? If not, why ? I have thought about this a lot since visiting this outdoor forum, and since have often wondered what your opinions would be and why.
I am curious about this topic because I really like so called "tactical" knives. But I also like a good solid hunter style knife. I have found that I can perform camp chores with many of my tactical knives, especially those with serrations. In fact, I have found that the word "tactical knife" (for me) may only apply to your use of the knife and possibly where you are using it.
If I am using my SIG knife to cut rope or limbs while in the woods, I figure tactical does not exist at the time. Just for example only, I chose a link of the knife I own and use as a reference for the word "tactical", but keep in mind I use this knife for bushcraft, along with many others. To sum it all up, is this just a common term used to help sell a knife within a certain market ? Your thoughts are welcomed and thanks.
http://www.sigarms.com/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=18&idproduct=69

Robbie Roberson

 

[Raz]

I think today it is simply a way of describing a particular look or style, rather then function.

Kind of like "indie" music, initially meaning function i.e. independent records,
However now the phrase is used to describe the sound of a genre; A melancholy inept droning

Tactical - designed for infrequent and specialised use.
Meaning sacrificing a utilitarian styled blade which is excellent for most tasks,
instead producing a knife great for sticking some poor soul, and not a lot else.
Aesthetically often slimmer, and stouter it seems.

However the lines are fairly blurry. You find Swedges on utility knives, and G10 scales on skinners. But basically by definition they are fighting knives

That Sig knife would be useless for the bush, and pretty much everything else!

 

[tomtom]

for me.. tactical = fighting something im not really interested in..

even if there are tactical knives (designed primarly for fighting) out there which make passable bush knives i know there are bush knives designed just for bush use ergo i have no use for or interest in tactical knives..

though i do base this opinion on little or no knolage of the tactial industry (something i have never felt hinded my ability to chose a knife to use in the bush)

we need a 2p smilie

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Thanks for the replies, I was just curious if anyone here ever used a so-called tactical for anything in the bushcraft areas. I find that I like to have at least one of this type just in case I need an extra, and since it folds, it's never in the way and pretty compact. The problem is I always carry 2 other hunter/camp style blades, so it's really not needed.
But I am always afraid I might need it, so I keep a tactical style clipped somewhere on my pack or gear.

Robbie Roberson

 

[alick]

Think planning - Strategy is your long term plan designed to fulfill your major goals, tactics are short term actions and maneovers to take best advantage of a short term situation.

To me (and I have a few good ones) tactical knives are purely "bats for the sport of com" and have very few if any other uses. I have some as collectors pieces because I'm an enthusiast and like the design, build quality or whatever. IMO these are utterly useless for bushcraft - even in a 3rd backup role. What possible use is a £200 precision knife with a needle point blade or whatever when you're doing bushcraft ? Carry a scalpel blade for emergency medical, one of the numerous smaller fixedblades, a strong utility folder whatever. The tanto is the second least useful bladeshape I can think of for bushcraft. I'd leave it at home !

BTW - I used to shoot a SIG, I like the ergonomics of their handle on a pistol but this new foray into folders doesn't float my boat.

Hope you don't take my comments amiss, I have no objection to people carrying these, I just can't understand why you want to. I'll happily recommend a dozen alternatives ):

All the best

 

[Robbie Roberson]

Alick, this is just what I wanted to hear, I needed some good input on "tactical" in the bush. I agree with most of what you said, and the others too. I do carry knives that fit the description that you speak of when I am in the great outdoors. But I wanted to hear some reasons why those that don't carry a tactical knife in the bush, do so.
I realize they don't fit the bill for most, if not all of the chores in the bush. But I am not always in the bush or woods, and I don't carry my SOG Hunter to town with me. I carry a variety of "tactical" folders when I am in town or around the public (to be discreet) clipped inside my pocket. Here in Tennessee, you just don't carry a Hunter in a leather sheath on your side in and around town.
So...............I started carrying a tactical style folder years ago while in law enforcement, and it eventually ended up in the woods with me.
I found that if I need to quickly cut a rope or something, I can open that blade in a split second and be done with it. And clip it back on my jeans or anywhere close for the next time. I could have pulled my Hunter and done the same thing, but I feel it is quicker this way sometimes and it also saves wear and tear on my Hunter blade, for when it's needed for more important heavier work.
I just needed to hear some opinions on this matter, and it's ok that most people don't carry any type tactical style knife. I think one day I was getting ready to go into the woods and thought, what the heck, I will just leave the Sig folder or whatever brand I may have had that day, in my pocket. And when I got where I was going, I used it for a variety of small chores and found it to be pretty useful and fast and easy to use. Of course I used my old reliable Hunter for my main chores, but I found the SIG (or whatever) did a good job.
To sum it up, I think it's great everyone relies on his or her main bushcraft blades. I was just curious to see if anyone else "occasionally" took along a tactical type folder just for fun, to see if it could do some of the things your main blade does. And lastly, the strong utilty folder you speak of is my $50 (US) SIG liner lock folder (for now), it is very strong and well made. Thanks so much for the comments, and happy bushcrafting.
Robbie Roberson

 

[Squidders]

Another point is that here in the uk we need to be able to give good reason for carrying a knife...

Tactical knives more often than not, look like they're designed to look mean and hurt things but with general utility knives (I use an EKA folder for every day and backup) they don't look that offensive and they're just as functional. This CAN have an effect on anyone seeing the knife.

Also, i don't really get on with saw edges and clips and the handle materials are usually designed for short term use not hours on end.

Like others, I have a few tactical knives and I have nothing against them, most are well built, sharp and well thought out tools. I'd just never take one into the woods.

Joe

 

[C_Claycomb]

My woolly 2c :roll:

Tactical knives are not necessarily fighting knives, just to clear that misconception. In the broad sense, a tactical knife is any knife designed to ease or facilitate tactical operations. That covers a pretty wide range of jobs from prying open windows or doors, to use as a back up weapon. Usually it is accepted there must be more to a knife than weapon use for it to be tactical. Tactical operations are carried out by military and police for whome knives are primarily going to be tools.

A Bill Bagwell bowie isn't tactical, and a Hayes Tac1 is not a fighter.

However there is a lot of grey area around "tactical" with fighters at one end and utility/combat/outdoors knives at the other. Some think of the Sebenza as a tactical folder, others don't.

I have carried both a Sebenza and a Ryan Wilson RRF in the woods and found both to be useful for small jobs, especially when wearing clothing that makes a belt knife difficult to access.

Some of the features that cause a knife to be called tactical, are useful in an outdoors knife. Whether the knife is really good outdoors depends on which "tactical" aspects the maker has leant towards.

 

[Webley Webster]

It may have meant something at one time but as far as I can tell now it is a marketing term that means "black" (e.g. the Gerber Yari is a prefectly useful knife for most task that was sold as "tactical' because it was all black.

Web

 

[alick]

Robbie, Ah - I see where you're coming from. If this is a knife that you carry around everyday, then I can see why you leave it in your pocket. I do the same except my EDC is a little Spyderco utility folder. I'd feel almost as lost without this as without my watch so it stays in my pocket even when I have something more substantial to hand.

You can see from the earlierpost why "tactical" designs aren't generally acceptable EDC in the UK. No doubt many others carry a swiss army knife in the woods for the same reason.

Cheers.

 

[Realgar]

That is a terrible looking knife - the serrated section is too short to be of much use, and I can't imagine what the point style is made for. Even saw backed knives aren't much use - the blade is usualy too thick to be used as a saw and if it was thin enough it'd be too flexible most knife tasks. I'd much rather just a decent well made no frills folding pocket knife like an opinel and a folding saw, maybe a billhook if I'm expecting do something heavy but whereas I'll usualy have a knife and saw with me in the woods I rarely have a large blade.

Just had a look at some of the others on that page, what possible justification is there for an 'auto' ie flick knife in any situation. ( totaly illegal in the Uk anyway )

Realgar

 

[Hoodoo]

It may have meant something at one time but as far as I can tell now it is a marketing term that means "black" (e.g. the Gerber Yari is a prefectly useful knife for most task that was sold as "tactical' because it was all black.

Web

I think today it is simply a way of describing a particular look or style, rather then function.

I agree. Steve ****, editor of Tactical Knives talked about this in a recent issue and said basically that "tactical knives" is an umbrella term used to describe all the new styles of knives that are emerging that didn't seem to fit the old, more traditional classifications.

Web's mention of the Gerber Yari is an excellent example. It has a tactical look but a nice thin bladed knife like that is very similar in function to the Marbles Expert favored by outdoorsmen like Calvin Rustrum. Personally I don't have an interest in fighting knives, just "outdoor" knives, but I'm getting my articles published in TK (including an article on the Woodlore), which means that TK sees outdoor knives falling under the umbrella of the definition of tactical knives. TK also has articles on kitchen knives, machetes, and axes. From Steve's perspective, they all fit right in. I like to think of the term tactical knives as meaning USING knives. You don't generally see drawer queens in TK. And I think that's the essence of the magazine and from my perspecitve, the term "tactical knife" as well. :wave:

 

[TheViking]

When I hear the word tactical knife, I think of battle and a backup weapon to your rifle. I've heard from a good amount of special forces that if you'd have to fight with one you're already in deep ! Many of the tactical knives i've seen have either had bad handles, double edged, etc and therefore they're not suitable for bushcraft tasks.

 

[Danzo]

Maybe 'tactical' is more a state of mind?



Danzo

 

[Rhapsody]

The law forbids people from marketing any knife as a fighting or combat knife, so the sneaky sellers just call them tactical knives instead. That's my understanding of it.

 

[alick]

...what possible justification is there for an 'auto' ie flick knife in any situation....

Setting aside the UK legal / illegal issues since these only apply to the UK and BCUK is attracting more and more members from around the world who are subject to different legislation :

There is always a strong argument for one hand opening folders. From simple convenience to the "I need to open my knife with one hand so that I can cut off the other one that is jammed in this rockfall" scenario !

Auto vs thumbstuds vs holes are then just a matter of what works best for you. e.g the "Reflex" automatic folder made by Benchmade in the USA was apparantly chosen for issue to members of US coastguard service. They needed a knife to cut ropes etc, a folder because it was safer to carry than a fixed blade, but needed to be able to open it easily when their hands were cold wet and had lost dexterity. That's not exactly a million miles from an everyday bushcraft situation.

Regardless of sensational tabloids and political bluster, automatic knives are still just cutting tools which use one of the available solutions to single handed opening. They're not even the quickest to open. They were just a tool abused by a criminal minority in our country.

Cheers

(Oh and for Chris - I quite like that RRF folder you mentioned, not a bad blade shape. Thanks - I hadn't heard of them.)

 

[Hoodoo]

The law forbids people from marketing any knife as a fighting or combat knife, so the sneaky sellers just call them tactical knives instead. That's my understanding of it.

Not in this country.

 

[Martyn]

Opinions please, tactical knives, we all hear the phrase. Do we we all assume it means a different kind of knife for use in a different area ? What does tactical knife really mean, and does this mean that we as Bushcrafters should not use a "tactical" knife in the bushcraft practice ? If not, why ? I have thought about this a lot since visiting this outdoor forum, and since have often wondered what your opinions would be and why.

I thought "tactical" was a euphamism for "weapon". Perhaps i got that wrong, I dunno? But from what I know, tactical knives are designed for knife fighting - predominantly stabbing and slashing, neither of which have any real use in a woods knife. To answer your question with a question, why would you take a knife designed as a fighting weapon into the woods, when there are so many task specific blades available? :?:

I can see only a few reasons, ...either it's an indulgence in a fantasy, or you've gone into the woods expecting a knife fight, or by some accident of design, the knife just happens to be OK as a woods knife.

I strongly suspect that the latter is often used as an excuse for the first two.

I do own a couple of tactical knives, I like them as curiosities, but they live permanently in the house. When I go into the woods, I prefer to take something that is designed for the job.

 

[Martyn]

Maybe 'tactical' is more a state of mind?



Danzo

Good grief, that's the first time I've seen a lawyer make the point in one sentance, where others use paragraphs. You must be a cheap lawyer Danzo. ):

Very well put, BTW.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Ironically I am finally carrying the knife I needed in the Coast Guard, my Benchmade RSK. My first knife was a Ontario made USAF survival knife. I managed to snap it at the hilt during arctic survival school. To be fair it was 20 below, the knife had been in inventory since 1965 and I was hammering it into a frozen billet of pine. My instructor promptly issued another one. I figured he wouldn't be around in a real situation and started looking around. The only other knife issued at that time was the still popular Camillus utility folder, not exactly an option. later I was helping bring in a disabled crabber and fought a losing battle with a frozen line. The greatfull skipper ( of finnish background) gifted me with a puukko. I carried it until I was informed I had to carry a knife with a marlinespike. So off to the chandler and I bought a classic sheepsfoot folder with spike. I almost drowned trying to cut a fouled net with the thing in Oregon. Back to another sportshop and I found a Linder sailor's knife in miserable early 440 Rostfrei but with a seperate marlinespike. A herculean effoprt gave it a nice edge and some paracord lanyard insured retrieval when the eronomic, but smooth rosewood handle slipped. Coast Guard PJs carry the Benchmades along with some savvy surfmen. Most Coasties run to the PX for a Myerchin, even though outside of Bo'suns the only time they work with line is tying their shoes. But, Myerchin comes with pretty white micarta handles that make for beautifull and salty scrimshaw of heroic lifeboat scenes ( yes dear, I served on a 44' MLB just like that. My office? well, as yoeman I was typing at the base usually.) Tactical knives are like those Myerchins and the Marine's K-bar. They represent, even epitomige the image, if not reallity.