Survival

[sandsnakes]

I now carry a pack with enough gear in my car to last for 6 days on the hoof. Paranoid, no not at all. Recently I was caught up in the political changes in Egypt, I was on the edge of the Egyptian western Sahara in a monastery that had threats from Islamic extremists. The monks were pretty cool about it, they just bolted every door they had and prayed a lot. When I heard the first detonation and saw the smoke clouds on the horizon, I realised I was screwed! So found a knife, got some gear together, got a map, plenty of water, compass, plastic sheet and put together a 'bug out kit'. Couple of tins of beans in oil, etc., etc. It was a tense time, scouted a couple of escape routes and watched while everyone go very edgy! A couple of friends can confirm my texts asking for outside info as there was a media blackout.

40 hours into this we were told 'Pack and go now!' we did and we passed an armed gang of pirates about 20k down the road. Made it to Cairo and got the first plane out... an interesting adventure.

What I learnt is your skills count for a lot if you have the materials around to use them, I scavenged a local rubbish heap for what I needed. Familiar gear helps even more if you have the skills to use it. You never know when or where you will need them, holiday will probably be the place you will need the kit.

The monks made it ok, a sandstorm blew up after we left and you could not see in front of your face. The yahoos went home, normality returned and their world got a bit better we hope.

We think of 'survivalists' as nut-jobs, but you never know when you will be confronted with survival. Sometimes its falling down a ditch and breaking your leg, other times, it may be running from the madness. Maybe what we react to is the overt 'Rambo like' stance, rather than the desire to be prepared and survive. I often wonder what I would have done if it had kicked off and I had had to take others with me or Helen had been with me.

S

 

[sandbender]

"...western sahara desert..."

You don't mean the Western Sahara desert do you? That would be quite a drive to Cairo

"...skills count for a lot if you have the materials around to use them, I scavenged a local rubbish heap for what I needed..."

Indeed, thinking differently and making use of what you have around you is always a good idea.

 

[sandsnakes]

Egyptian western Sahara

 

[Hoodoo]

I would say it is best to have all that information in your head but also carry a well thought out minimum of survival gear if you are truly headed into a wilderness area. There is always a precipitating event in such situations that turns a normal outing into a risk of life and limb. That precipitating event could be the loss of your mobility, broken ankle, leg, hit to the head etc that will nullify many of the primitive techniques we practice in terms of their ability to save your life.

The other factor to bear in mind is that you don't always realize you are lost at eight thirty AM on a sunny day in June. Often it is a change in the weather, things turn ugly and the light is fading when you realize you got turned around and came down the wrong side of the mountain. This is one of the main reasons I separate modern wilderness survival techniques form purely primitive or bushcraft survival techniques. Lots of things we do under the heading of bushcraft contribute little to actual survival, like making spoons. Other primitive techniques like making friction fire or natural shelters could actually save your life. A modern, prepared before hand solution, like a bivy and Bic will do that right now. Feel free to disagree, I won't be offended, but that's how I look at it.

Totally agree. I keep survival kits in all my vehicles, all my backpacks, and I have an EDC survival kit for urban carry. Mostly that is a flashlight, antacids, bandaids, and a sewing kit.

You might be able to use your knowledge to dig yourself out when you get caught in a blizzard on your drive home from work, but personally, I carry a shovel. At the very least, it will help me get out of the parking lot.

John, you and I are on the same weight loss plan.

 

[pango]

That's a relief Gadzooks!

Have you seen how much acting classes cost these days?

"Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well from ye olde Bushmoot Horatio. A fellow of infinite jest where there be hammocks, of most excellent fancy with his Bear Grylls knyfe, he hathe borne me on his back a thousand times to my bivi".

Liam

Nearpishtmasell!

 

[pango]

Dunno about you, but I find something disturbing about folk who say they go out prepared for the worst.

I've traipsed the mountain landscapes of many countries, and in such ventures I'm pretty much a walking survival unit. But there are scenarios where the risk of finding yourself in dire straights is greater than others, and the primary concern of anyone going into remote areas whether alone or in company, even if sub-consciously, has to be that of safety and well being. Ah, so that's why my rucksac contains all those essential items which are rarely used!

Conditioning for such scenarios often goes unnoticed over a period of years and comes from different spheres of experience.
Annual family camping holidays; midgie bites itch! wind and smoke keep them away; stoves flare up; prepare now or wake up wet; never trust an old highland bridge; 2 month old calves are bigger and stronger than 5 year old boys:
Leith Nautical College marked me for life; trust your skills; poor husbandry is laziness; a blunt knife is a dangerous knife; "Fools and farmers sit on fences": and my first action in the morning is still to make my bed!
Mountaineering; your partner and yourself are equally to blame!

And then there are the years of working in industry, the plethora of Offshore Survival, First Aid and Firefighting Courses, the hundreds of international flights... I'm irritated by those without the manners to look up from their magazines during in-flight briefings - I've seen tougher men than them screaming like fannies when something goes wrong!

You can't prepare for every eventuality and the mindset of expecting the worst is plain wrong-headedness unless, like some of the folk on this forum, you're living in an isolated area where a motor breakdown could have dire consequences, or in a war-zone. The best preparedness has to be experience and learned behaviour carried as knowledge and you can't buy that, although having a pocket-knife is always a good idea!

 

[Pict]

In a few of these terms there is a matter of degrees. As an American we use the term "survivalist" to describe those individuals who for whatever reason believe in a total collapse of society, much of which borders on fantasy. Still if you look at the US as a whole it is hard to find an area that is not subject to some form of natural disaster be it hurricanes, tornadoes, severe snow and ice, wildfires or earthquakes. It is common for people who prepare for such things (like a two week survive at home plan and prep) to be lumped into the "survivalist" group. It think that is unfair.

When it comes to the wilderness not all wilderness areas are created equal. Over here in the Americas there are very large wilderness areas where you truly can get yourself into trouble. Here in South America S&R resources are scant and you very well could find yourself very much on your own to resolve your situation.
Having a reasonable assessment of the risks involved in entering such areas and preparing accordingly just makes sense. It isn't living in fear, in fact it's just the opposite. It is the confidence of being in the desert with 20 liters of water in the trunk (boot) for an overnight stay under the stars with the wife. That's not fear or paranoia just an appreciation that the desert can and does kill people who go there for "just an overnight" unprepared.

I have seen many situations here turn into tragedy that could have been avoided by a little forethought and minimal expense.

Mac

 

[cowboy]

I agree with you Ben, not only do you never use the stuff in your survival bag, but to ME its an extra bit of unessential weight. If your going somewhere its normally planned rite!? so if ur off to the pub and an earthquake hits, your not going have you survival gear on you!! At the most you'll have a lighter and a small pocket knife?!.. The only time id ever use a survival pack is if i wanted to go out somewhere with just that to practice my skills on using the bear minimal..



cowboy

 

[sandsnakes]

My six day pack is now also used as my off to the woods for the weekend pack. So is it survival or preparation for something I enjoy? What I know is that bushcraft gave me an alternative, that occupied my mind and let me have a plan if the bad guys got to the door. I did not sit in fear as some did. The only other guy who reacted to the situation was a Greek who had been in a mountain regiment during national service. His plans were much the same as mine, run and hide!

Bushcraft and a few Ray Mears videos gave me an option, not a good one but a better one than I may have been confronted with.

 

[Hoodoo]

In a few of these terms there is a matter of degrees. As an American we use the term "survivalist" to describe those individuals who for whatever reason believe in a total collapse of society, much of which borders on fantasy. Still if you look at the US as a whole it is hard to find an area that is not subject to some form of natural disaster be it hurricanes, tornadoes, severe snow and ice, wildfires or earthquakes. It is common for people who prepare for such things (like a two week survive at home plan and prep) to be lumped into the "survivalist" group. It think that is unfair.

When it comes to the wilderness not all wilderness areas are created equal. Over here in the Americas there are very large wilderness areas where you truly can get yourself into trouble. Here in South America S&R resources are scant and you very well could find yourself very much on your own to resolve your situation.
Having a reasonable assessment of the risks involved in entering such areas and preparing accordingly just makes sense. It isn't living in fear, in fact it's just the opposite. It is the confidence of being in the desert with 20 liters of water in the trunk (boot) for an overnight stay under the stars with the wife. That's not fear or paranoia just an appreciation that the desert can and does kill people who go there for "just an overnight" unprepared.

I have seen many situations here turn into tragedy that could have been avoided by a little forethought and minimal expense.

Mac

Very well said Mac. I could not agree more.

 

[Lumber Jack]

Dunno about you, but I find something disturbing about folk who say they go out prepared for the worst.

I've traipsed the mountain landscapes of many countries, and in such ventures I'm pretty much a walking survival unit. But there are scenarios where the risk of finding yourself in dire straights is greater than others, and the primary concern of anyone going into remote areas whether alone or in company, even if sub-consciously, has to be that of safety and well being. Ah, so that's why my rucksac contains all those essential items which are rarely used!

Conditioning for such scenarios often goes unnoticed over a period of years and comes from different spheres of experience.
Annual family camping holidays; midgie bites itch! wind and smoke keep them away; stoves flare up; prepare now or wake up wet; never trust an old highland bridge; 2 month old calves are bigger and stronger than 5 year old boys:
Leith Nautical College marked me for life; trust your skills; poor husbandry is laziness; a blunt knife is a dangerous knife; "Fools and farmers sit on fences": and my first action in the morning is still to make my bed!
Mountaineering; your partner and yourself are equally to blame!

And then there are the years of working in industry, the plethora of Offshore Survival, First Aid and Firefighting Courses, the hundreds of international flights... I'm irritated by those without the manners to look up from their magazines during in-flight briefings - I've seen tougher men than them screaming like fannies when something goes wrong!

You can't prepare for every eventuality and the mindset of expecting the worst is plain wrong-headedness unless, like some of the folk on this forum, you're living in an isolated area where a motor breakdown could have dire consequences, or in a war-zone. The best preparedness has to be experience and learned behaviour carried as knowledge and you can't buy that, although having a pocket-knife is always a good idea!

I agree with you. Walking around with every pocket stuffed full of various goodies to keep you alive is overkill and it makes me laugh when I see such people. A knife and a way of making fire, either a source like a a ferro rod or the knowledge to start one from natural materials, apart from my clothing and a small ruck sack that I carry some water an extra fleece/pair of socks and my camera. That's all I take out with me.

I do think preparing for the worst has it's advantages. When I go out shooting I often think "worst case scenario, I run out of cartridges. I'll take another box." That's saved a trip back home many a time. That example has nothing to do with survival. But it shows that preparing for the worst has it's advantages. If you aren't going out expecting the worst...What are you expecting? Are you going out sure of yourself and your abilities?

In all honesty I don't think anybody knows what a "survival situation" is. Apart from those who have experienced one first hand. My missus is a clinical psychologist and I've had many a conversation about survival. She specializes in the criminally insane, so it's a bit out of her comfort zone. But what she always says is the mental trauma the brain receives in situations like "survival" is incomprehensible to us mortals. The fear of death, starvation, loneliness and a multitude of other things including injuries, really does make it incomprehensible when you think about it. Even psychologists base most of what they know on theories. The simple fact of the matter is, they don't know, they can only make an educated guess. If it doesn't work, they try something else.

I once read in a book many moons ago, a passage that had an interesting fact, with a nice message embedded in it; "...If the history of the world was condensed into one year. Human beings would appear 20 minutes before midnight on the final day. If you are thinking of going out and taking Mother nature on head to head, think again, she'll bite you in the a*se. You're nothing but a tiny pin ***** in the greater scheme of things."

I suppose what I'm trying to say is everybody has their different comfort zones. If going out prepared for the worst makes you feel more comfortable and relaxed, which in turn will reduce the likely hood of you doing something silly, then I think people should do that.

Lumber Jack.