Survival Tins - Updates

[Minotaur]

A small folding saw or wire saw just gives you an advantage - better than not having one surely? Wire saws work fine; they may not last long but if it gives you a head start on cutting shelter poles or a few long branches for firewood then that again is better than nothing.

I have found that the saws are useless if left in the tin for any period of time. It is normally a case of how quickly they will break. The only one I have ever owned that was any good was the one from the Explora knife however it did not want to be rolled up at all so would not go in a tin. As I am repacking my tins at the moment and I do not carry a saw in them, I was trying to get a sense if I was missing something? I have been toying with adding a sabre saw blade like we used to have the little bit of hack saw blade with an edge or people were making their own version of the product show above.

The survival tin was always designed to be a short-term provision of survival aids.

I think I said earlier however maybe had not formed the thought fully that the SAS survival tin is for a soldier and is aimed that way. I gave up on the SAS survival tins because a Ray Mears' possibility bag/pouch idea worked better for me. A series of items that let me do what I want to do and was easy to refill etc. More importantly it was easy for me to notice that I had used the items and they need refilling. It was also easier to deal with rather than trying to repack the tin all the time.
Due to doing a little more straight hiking I have gone back to the survival tin as a sort of outdoor EDC however I am not happy with it yet. Really enjoying this thread because it getting me to think about what is in my tin and what other people put in theirs.

The tinder card takes no space really, just lying flat at the bottom of the tin. Only about 1mm thick.

They look interesting for the size and weight and may add one to the bottom of my tin. I carry cotton wool soaked in Petroleum jelly and am looking at the waxed cotton wool pads. Maybe cut up in such a way that they would line the button of top of the tin in a bag or foil maybe.

I do wonder what sort of kit you could make from a SIGG mug as mentioned before with a lid and a leather pouch so you always had it with you or could we find a 2oz tin that had the opening on the short side. The way the the Aldi and Lidl altoid rip off tins have gone.

 

[Minotaur]

I did have a thought while typing the previous post and going back to the thread start and it was this what do you expect your tin to do?
To give an idea of this thought, everyone has a first aid kit at work and trained first aiders however that whole process is built on the fact that you can get an ambulance in 8 minutes so a lot of the time the kit is pointless.
My point being my outdoor EDC needs to keep me alive for at most 72 hours so the tin should contain either back up to a really important item I should always have with me or a way to perform a task like have a drink that I might not have on me as standard. Tinder to light a fire because I might not be mobile and stuff to attract attention.

 

[BrewkitAndBasha]

I did have a thought while typing the previous post and going back to the thread start and it was this what do you expect your tin to do?
To give an idea of this thought, everyone has a first aid kit at work and trained first aiders however that whole process is built on the fact that you can get an ambulance in 8 minutes so a lot of the time the kit is pointless.
My point being my outdoor EDC needs to keep me alive for at most 72 hours so the tin should contain either back up to a really important item I should always have with me or a way to perform a task like have a drink that I might not have on me as standard. Tinder to light a fire because I might not be mobile and stuff to attract attention.

Yep, I used to carry a small survival tin when I was younger and the UK was all caught up in the 1980s survival craze! Spent too many hours of my life unpacking and then repacking it! I agree with you on the slightly larger pouch kit - more flexible for different environments, more practical and useful on an everyday basis. Now as I work in dense forest and jungle, I still carry a survival pouch on my belt as it allows me some flexibility to move around without a large pack on. I also get asked a lot about survival tins from folks we train so I try to explain the concept, limitations and advantages, but that a pouch kit is more practical. For a soldier on the run, whatever he can carry with him is a bonus and so the few essentials in a tin in the smock pocket will be used as a last resort - hard times ahead indeed, if that situation ever arises!

Boiling water in a small tobacco tin has never worked for me at all, the water boils away almost entirely and spits out everywhere and so it may just be good enough for sterilizing a needle or making a few mouthfuls of warm pine needle tea...otherwise the tin is there to protect the contents and usually does that quite well.

The Trangia mini mess-tin and lid (as mentioned earlier in this thread) is a good container and can be carried in a small pouch on the belt.

My emergency gear out here is still split into: a) carried on person (EDC-plus), b) belt-kit (with survival equipment, signalling items, emergency rations and first aid kit, plus my parang carried on a separate strap - none of this will fit into a tobacco tin!) and, if required, c) rucksack with the main sustainment gear.

 

[Minotaur]

Yep, I used to carry a small survival tin when I was younger and the UK was all caught up in the 1980s survival craze! Spent too many hours of my life unpacking and then repacking it! I agree with you on the slightly larger pouch kit - more flexible for different environments, more practical and useful on an everyday basis. Now as I work in dense forest and jungle, I still carry a survival pouch on my belt as it allows me some flexibility to move around without a large pack on. I also get asked a lot about survival tins from folks we train so I try to explain the concept, limitations and advantages, but that a pouch kit is more practical.

I think that is the idea in that it needs to be something that on your person at all times so if you need it you have it. I think that was my thought in that I live and go out in the UK and not the highlands of Vietnam.

For a soldier on the run, whatever he can carry with him is a bonus and so the few essentials in a tin in the smock pocket will be used as a last resort - hard times ahead indeed, if that situation ever arises!

I think the point behind them was to dump everything else and run for it. Escape and evasion style so that the guide for the tin.

Boiling water in a small tobacco tin has never worked for me at all, the water boils away almost entirely and spits out everywhere and so it may just be good enough for sterilizing a needle or making a few mouthfuls of warm pine needle tea...otherwise the tin is there to protect the contents and usually does that quite well.

Never tried it, always used the foil we put in the tin.

The Trangia mini mess-tin and lid (as mentioned earlier in this thread) is a good container and can be carried in a small pouch on the belt.

Really like them or the BCB ones.

My emergency gear out here is still split into: a) carried on person (EDC-plus), b) belt-kit (with survival equipment, signalling items, emergency rations and first aid kit, plus my parang carried on a separate strap - none of this will fit into a tobacco tin!) and, if required, c) rucksack with the main sustainment gear.

Yeah, I saw the PACE idea and think going to apply that to my kit especially as it not like I can go anywhere at the moment. Going to try and look at my stuff like the Urban Prepper who colour codes everything which might be pushing the OCD for me however he seems to have got the Urban stuff down.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

Just to chip in as an aside, I came across this new British YouTuber very recently. I think his take on a survival tin will be of interest to some on this thread. His other output is worth a browse too.

 

[Erbswurst]

Perhaps the ARS saws have been chosen because they do not break as fast as the Silky blades?
I am unsure, but if I remember it right they have thicker blades.

Would this be the case, they are perhaps the better choice for Snow sawing.

I had no problems with several Silky models that I used, but I did read in a German forum somewhere that beginners where able to break them pretty soon.

Surely this question would be worth an own thread, although I guess, that we haven't so many Inuit in this forum.

My impression is, that they are less interested in bushes...

 

[Tengu]

Never had any trouble with mine.

But then I got the hang of pulling pretty quick.

I imagine if you habitually pushed...

 

[Minotaur]

Just to chip in as an aside, I came across this new British YouTuber very recently. I think his take on a survival tin will be of interest to some on this thread. His other output is worth a browse too.

Bang on, really enjoying this video and he making the points I have in my last few posts only much better.
Really like his video background!

I had no problems with several Silky models that I used, but I did read in a German forum somewhere that beginners where able to break them pretty soon.

I was about to upgrade to one so it interesting to find that in testing the US military went with another brand. Tired wet and hungry saw breaking is not a good thing.

Surely this question would be worth an own thread, although I guess, that we haven't so many Inuit in this forum. My impression is, that they are less interested in bushes...

Might be useful for pre-prep for global warming. Us Brits need to get our Norway environment skills up to snuff
Also if there any Inuits available everyone on this forum is going to sit and listen to them I would have thought.

 

[Erbswurst]

Yes, beginners push Silky saws, they bend and break.

I used a Silky saw also upside down to cut a branch from a living tree mounted on a perhaps 3,5 metres long pole and had absolutely no problems.

I don't know what people are doing, to break the saws. But into snow you obviously have to push the saw.

Silky Fox Pole Saws > Longboy

Silky Fox, UK based suppiers of Silky pruning, folding and pole saws, designed for arboriculture, gardens and tree care.

www.silkyfox.co.uk

 

[Tengu]

Nope, let the saw do the work.

it doesnt need forcing.

 

[Erbswurst]

I looked it up ones more, because it wasn't my saw and it's a couple of years ago. It was surely a 6 metres extracted Silky Hayate.
No problem for a relatively experienced and careful person.

Silky Fox Pole Saws > Hayate

Silky Fox, UK based suppiers of Silky pruning, folding and pole saws, designed for arboriculture, gardens and tree care.

www.silkyfox.co.uk

Doesn't fit into a survival tin though...

 

[Minotaur]

Dark House Dave's recommended video was really good. If you think about it you could get a tiffin or bento box in steel and do something like that.
Best bit was the idea of using a bobbin as a thread storage device.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

Dark House Dave's recommended video was really good. If you think about it you could get a tiffin or bento box in steel and do something like that.

Actually there's quite a bit of natural light in my house.....

On containers though, there are always the Trangia mess tins mentioned previously in this thread, or if like me you still have some old British Army mess tins, you could use one of those with an after-market / home-made lid (there's a bloke on E-bay that makes & sells them; they are decent & reasonably priced - and no, it's not me!)

The thing I liked especially about the one in the video was his idea of lifting all the contents out in one block, so saving all the repacking faff and keeping the tin ready to use for its intended purpose.

 

[Minotaur]

Actually there's quite a bit of natural light in my house.....

Sorry

On containers though, there are always the Trangia mess tins mentioned previously in this thread, or if like me you still have some old British Army mess tins, you could use one of those with an after-market / home-made lid (there's a bloke on E-bay that makes & sells them; they are decent & reasonably priced - and no, it's not me!)

I am planning to try making my own lids for my mess tins based on the aluminium bottles idea stated previously. I might even cut them down a little at the same time. I do like the Trangia ones however I not sure were it fits in the idea of it. Ideally I want something to replace a tobacco tin that can sit in a cargo trouser pocket.
I like this style BCB CN550 Mini Mess Tin Aluminium and after the video might try the idea.

The thing I liked especially about the one in the video was his idea of lifting all the contents out in one block, so saving all the repacking faff and keeping the tin ready to use for its intended purpose.

Yeah that was one of many clever ideas he had. I am sure I have seen the plastic bag as a place to dump the kit before however he has really thought it through.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

Ideally I want something to replace a tobacco tin that can sit in a cargo trouser pocket.
I like this style BCB CN550 Mini Mess Tin Aluminium and after the video might try the idea.

Have you also seen the Survival Handbook by Colin Towell? (I think it has been republished / repackaged in a few forms). He describes a decent-looking kit packed into one of those tins (this image nicked from a Google search). Worth a browse if you haven't already seen.

View attachment 64323

Edited: ah; I'm probably not allowed to attach that image. Anyway, it's worth a look if you can get hold of a copy.

 

[Laurentius]

Another way of looking at it might be to look at the various things you carry, and think about the ones you would least like to leave behind, for me that is my SAK farmer, the new one with the scissors. It is in a victorinox pouch with a fireplug for tinder, an ikea pencil, a couple of cut down hacksaw blades and a ferro rod on the outside.

 

[Tengu]

I have one with a lid; must find it.

 

[Minotaur]

Top survival techniques I learned from Mors Kochanski

Been walking round with a big smile on my face since reading this.

 

[neoaliphant]

The wire saws were always a bit of a waste of time so just wondering if this a military hold out or an actual useful item?
Useful item give a chain saw the space depending on the use.

I did a test lat year comparing my collapsible bucksaw, a tenon saw and my BCB wiresaw
i reckon the wiresaw was about 2/3 the cutting speed of the bucksaw but still did a good job
better for cyclindrical wood cutting rather than campcraft, but still did a good job
this was one that looked like a spiky chain, not the earlier type that looked like a brake cable, those broke really easily.

 

[neoaliphant]

The Trangia mini mess-tin and lid (as mentioned earlier in this thread) is a good container and can be carried in a small pouch on the belt.

ive had one for 20 years, its great, have cooked many meals in it, mostly water based ones, on top of the small esbit hexi stove. its fine for boiling water, the lid is the great addition compared to army tins, which are too large for survival pouch imho.

I used to use it as a survival tin, but now its part of my daypack food kit