Survival Bow - What do you make of this?
- Thread starter Swallow
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I would say that the speed the arrow left the bow would be next to useless outside of about 10 yards adn getting that close to game.., even then hard to aim.
The principal is cool enough and an old time jobbie, two saplings tapered and bound. Its like everything you can spend 5 minutes making a nasty one and weeks or months making a good one. I guess when its comes to the crunch its a case of how long do you have in a "survival situation" Guy seems nuts to be honest, "cant make a bow that doesnt break without sinew or laminates" lot of people would disagree.......
The principal is cool enough and an old time jobbie, two saplings tapered and bound. Its like everything you can spend 5 minutes making a nasty one and weeks or months making a good one. I guess when its comes to the crunch its a case of how long do you have in a "survival situation" Guy seems nuts to be honest, "cant make a bow that doesnt break without sinew or laminates" lot of people would disagree.......
Having played about with bamboo bundle bows a little, and making a few self bows, the question I always want to ask when presented with anything about a "survival bow" such as that is "Why?". What situation is imagined that actually calls for such a device? It seems sadly crude if you are planning on long term living on the proceeds of bow and arrow, and an unnecessary expenditure of energy if you are in a real survival situation.
I enjoyed playing with my bows to be sure, but I never really saw building them as a survival skill. Shooting them, maybe, not for me, but for some people it could be.
I enjoyed playing with my bows to be sure, but I never really saw building them as a survival skill. Shooting them, maybe, not for me, but for some people it could be.
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It does indeed seem inadequate in many ways. It was the beauty of the principle I liked. Clearly many people can make bows out of wood that don't break. This seemed like a good "up and running" option until something less crude was built which is why I was curious about what other people thought.
What situation calls for such a device?
I guess one where you are stranded with no communications devices, a long way from anywhere and no-one is looking for you (shouldn't you always be prepared that you won't be found as well as making it more likely that you will be?) and lastly that there is something you can hunt with a bow and arrow.
I'm always interested in different perspectives so what would you use in that situation?
For hunting?
A rabbit stick.
However, I'd make traplines and do something else while the snares hunted for me.
A rabbit stick.
However, I'd make traplines and do something else while the snares hunted for me.
The principal is OK, but his methods are off.
If he took a bit longer to make it and preloaded the limbs, like you would with a normal bow, he would get a lot more poundae pull out of the bow and therefore greater range and killing power
If he took a bit longer to make it and preloaded the limbs, like you would with a normal bow, he would get a lot more poundae pull out of the bow and therefore greater range and killing power
Bows made from whole hazel and aze rods, still quite green
[video]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1LS45MKRpi8Pf3BPROVMQDNeQJVeFr oZIFBI2YrMFG4?feat=directlink[/video]
They were shooting at a target about 20 yards away. Most bows had a pull of about 20lb and would be capable of killing a rabbit.
[video]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1LS45MKRpi8Pf3BPROVMQDNeQJVeFr oZIFBI2YrMFG4?feat=directlink[/video]
They were shooting at a target about 20 yards away. Most bows had a pull of about 20lb and would be capable of killing a rabbit.
That bow was very crude and a little more time spent making one would give vastly superior results. Having said that this sort of bow needs no bow making skills just the ability to lash some branches together. I can't see much of a 'survival' use for the bow shown in it's present form however as a good shot would struggle to get within hunting distances let alone a novice. The speed of the arrow was far too slow and animals have very good senses that make them good at dodging slow objects heading their way!
The bow shown was very long thus making it break resistant verses a bow of a shorter length with equal thickness limbs but lost poundage in the process. A shorter bow with equal thickness branches would have a heavier draw(about 5lbs per inch off each end). However a shorter bow is more difficult to loose accurately than a long bow.
Make such a bow shorter but concentrate on making the whole bow bend with your branch placement and then if possible let the thing season a while or force dry over a fire and you will have a decent hunting weight bow that will give a decent arrow speed.
Then the hard part is making a 'survival' string if you have nothing on you already. Paracord may work in a pinch but would make a sluggish bow due to the weight and stretch. For a 50lb bow I would want a 200lb minimum break strain string and quite a feat with stuff you find in the woods while keeping the mass down to OK levels. 100lb may be OK for a few shots but would break quick.
Then comes the arrows again hard to make with all naturals. Fletching and making points very difficult but I suppose blunts could be used on small game up to rabbit size and birds.
So IMO a decent bundle bow is not hard to make and will be capable of taking modest size game. Every thing else you will need is the hard part and then you will need the skills to stalk game to a distance where you could place an arrow in the right place first time. It's just not going to happen I'm afraid to your average person needing to hunt in a 'survival' situation. I could make all the hardware needed to hunt with all natural materials if I had TIME. Although I feel I am a good shot on targets I would struggle to stalk and take game as that is a whole new set of skills that take time to learn. Being in the UK learning those skills are impossible due to bow hunting being illegal. As I air-gun hunt occasionally I can get a sense of what it is like stalking and how hard it is but even with legal limit air you are talking of ranges 2-3 times the range of natural bows and the benefit that extra distance gives with stalking. I believe wood bow hunters try to keep their ranges to 15 yards, 20 at a push! Just try getting that close to anything wild before it scarpers!
Be good for our American bow-hunter friends to chime in on how easy it would be to survive with a bow?
steve.
The bow shown was very long thus making it break resistant verses a bow of a shorter length with equal thickness limbs but lost poundage in the process. A shorter bow with equal thickness branches would have a heavier draw(about 5lbs per inch off each end). However a shorter bow is more difficult to loose accurately than a long bow.
Make such a bow shorter but concentrate on making the whole bow bend with your branch placement and then if possible let the thing season a while or force dry over a fire and you will have a decent hunting weight bow that will give a decent arrow speed.
Then the hard part is making a 'survival' string if you have nothing on you already. Paracord may work in a pinch but would make a sluggish bow due to the weight and stretch. For a 50lb bow I would want a 200lb minimum break strain string and quite a feat with stuff you find in the woods while keeping the mass down to OK levels. 100lb may be OK for a few shots but would break quick.
Then comes the arrows again hard to make with all naturals. Fletching and making points very difficult but I suppose blunts could be used on small game up to rabbit size and birds.
So IMO a decent bundle bow is not hard to make and will be capable of taking modest size game. Every thing else you will need is the hard part and then you will need the skills to stalk game to a distance where you could place an arrow in the right place first time. It's just not going to happen I'm afraid to your average person needing to hunt in a 'survival' situation. I could make all the hardware needed to hunt with all natural materials if I had TIME. Although I feel I am a good shot on targets I would struggle to stalk and take game as that is a whole new set of skills that take time to learn. Being in the UK learning those skills are impossible due to bow hunting being illegal. As I air-gun hunt occasionally I can get a sense of what it is like stalking and how hard it is but even with legal limit air you are talking of ranges 2-3 times the range of natural bows and the benefit that extra distance gives with stalking. I believe wood bow hunters try to keep their ranges to 15 yards, 20 at a push! Just try getting that close to anything wild before it scarpers!
Be good for our American bow-hunter friends to chime in on how easy it would be to survive with a bow?
steve.
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Whittler Kev
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Well I like it even if it is like a bundle bow.
Genius or mad? Don't we all have those moments...no....hang on....just me then
Genius or mad? Don't we all have those moments...no....hang on....just me then
50lb!
What are you thinking of hunting!
I used to bowhunt (in australia) - I started with a 20lb stick bow. That was entirely sufficient to take small game (rabbit-size downwards) from as far as I could hit them. Mostly I hunted birds and shot them in trees above me.
I was a very poor shot, but I reckon that 2hrs hunting would net you a couple of birds and maybe a rabbit.
Ducks need broadheads or something that causes more damage than a normal point. Even blunts don't do enough damage to keep them on the ground unless you hit bone.
I was thinking of of slightly bigger game with that poundage, deer, sheep, cattle etc...that should be easier to hit (while hoping to hit the vital kill zones) in a strictly survival situation. Not good practice to just shoot an animal anywhere on the body but getting a hit or two with a flint point could give food for a month or two whereas a rabbit or bird is a mouthful or so.
I'm wondering how many calories would be used gathering, making and hunting? I feel small game would not return what was spent?
I know many states have a lower limit on what poundage can be used for hunting and 50lbs seems to be the cut-off from a wood bow perspective from what I have read?
As I have never shot small game with a bow I will defer to your experience mrcharly and others who bow hunt. What sort of ranges were you hunting to?
Steve
I'm wondering how many calories would be used gathering, making and hunting? I feel small game would not return what was spent?
I know many states have a lower limit on what poundage can be used for hunting and 50lbs seems to be the cut-off from a wood bow perspective from what I have read?
As I have never shot small game with a bow I will defer to your experience mrcharly and others who bow hunt. What sort of ranges were you hunting to?
Steve
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The problem with shooting larger game is that you need to preserve the meat. In a survival situation you take what is close by - and the most common game in most countries are birds. I wouldn't like to try shooting even a sheep with a make-do arrow. Unless you hit a vital organ you will either have to chase down a wounded animal and finish it off with a knife or club, or you will have to chase and shoot it multiple times. The wounded animal is also likely to break precious arrows as it runs. Frankly, I'd rather use a long spear and throw it than a makeshift bow with a bit of flint on some arrows. This opinion is based on assisting with slaughtering sheep and cattle where the animals have been shot with a rifle, btw. I've never shot a sheep or a cow with a bow.
One pigeon would provide one meal. One mallard two meals. Plenty of return for you energy.
Mostly I shot birds out of trees - so under 10 yards. I've stalked a lot closer - managed to get to within 6ft of a crow by utilising it's curiosity. I've shot parrots from much much further away - if you are out for game and there is a flock in open ground (short grass), you have nothing to lose by taking a shot from even a hundred yards. You won't lose the arrow (it will be sticking up) and there is a possibility you'll hit something. An arrow from even a 20lb bow will penetrate right through pigeon and duck-sized game at that range.
Rabbits are a pain to shoot - it's hard to stalk closer than 25 yards and at that range if you miss, the arrow buries itself in the grass. All the rabbits then take to ground. Flocks of birds take off, circle a bit, then land in a different tree.
One pigeon would provide one meal. One mallard two meals. Plenty of return for you energy.
Mostly I shot birds out of trees - so under 10 yards. I've stalked a lot closer - managed to get to within 6ft of a crow by utilising it's curiosity. I've shot parrots from much much further away - if you are out for game and there is a flock in open ground (short grass), you have nothing to lose by taking a shot from even a hundred yards. You won't lose the arrow (it will be sticking up) and there is a possibility you'll hit something. An arrow from even a 20lb bow will penetrate right through pigeon and duck-sized game at that range.
Rabbits are a pain to shoot - it's hard to stalk closer than 25 yards and at that range if you miss, the arrow buries itself in the grass. All the rabbits then take to ground. Flocks of birds take off, circle a bit, then land in a different tree.
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