Stick tangs and Full tangs. Advantages and Disadvantages

[Graham_S]

Look at the good old red handled mora.
This is the (stick tang) knife that Mors hammers into trees to cut them down.
Seems good enough for me.

 

[Samon]

I use the new Mora 510 and baton with it for small kindling and all sorts, even some super tough seasoned plum branches that I have in my back garden and don't have a problems or doubts of tang failure.

I do think a stick tang knife with a poorly made handle or room for the tang to bend or be stressed will majorly increase the chances of it snapping.

However, something advertised as a 'bushcraft' knife should be up for common bushcraft practice and any breakages during that show a flaw/weakness in the knife design. All the horror stories I've heard of tang breakage seem to be on Helle knives..maybe the tangs are just too thin?

 

[sapper1]

Which Helle knives have you heard stories about?I ask because I've only seen the one review where one snapped.

 

[Samon]

Not sure of models but 3 different people have had tang failure from moderate batoning. I think it was mentioned on here by someone else a few days ago actually..

 

[sapper1]

So in fact you don't really KNOW of any that have snapped?I wonder how these things get started
Is this another urban myth?Or is there a verifiable history that we can check that shows lots of snapped stick tangs?

 

[Toddy]

I have a Helle Polar too (currently on loan to another BCUK member) and I love it to bits. I'm a big bloke but I could easily use it as my main or only working knife.

That said, the laminated blade lends it a level of toughness impossible to equal with a single steel blade...

I have the dubious distinction of having delaminated a Helle polar .....replaced in days by Helle, I hasten to add
I have small hands, but my knives get a lot of use one way and another. This was the knife I bought for me

Funnily enough Hoodoo, who must have one of the best knife collections on the planet also likes his Helle polar too I think he uses is as a necker.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tiley]

A bit of a distraction, I admit, but I am tempted to try one of the puukos made by Finnish Wilderness. They're stick tang beasts and certainly look very attractive. Does anyone know anything more about them? Are they good/bad/indifferent? Would I be better off looking at other stick tang producers, like Helle, for instance?

Up until now, I've been a full tang devotee. I like the weight of them which, as someone has already pointed out, is all in the hand anyway, and that inherent sense of strength. I must have been lucky because none of the full tang tools I own has suffered from slab shrinkage or deformation - yet (at this point, my fingers are firmly crossed and I'm grabbing on to any available wood within reach...)! I think that, for the sake of completeness, I ought to try a stick tang but it's down to quality of manufacture, blade length and shape, handle material and so on, hence my enquiry about Finnish Wilderness.

 

[Siberianfury]

the standard handmade "bushcraft" knife I.E the woodlore is designed to cope with a multitude of tasks which include battoning, carving, game prep ect. the general idea behind it is that if you should be without an axe or larger knife then the knife will be able to cope with any degree of battoning. most of the time i use a leuku or small hatchet, but when my knife is all to hand and i want to split wood i use my knife.

 

[Samon]

So in fact you don't really KNOW of any that have snapped?I wonder how these things get started
Is this another urban myth?Or is there a verifiable history that we can check that shows lots of snapped stick tangs?

Well ~I DO KNOW~ people who have owned Helle stick tangs and had the tangs break, so no it isn't a urban myth it happens and the ones I've heard of have been Helle branded (not sure what models though).

 

[Siberianfury]

A bit of a distraction, I admit, but I am tempted to try one of the puukos made by Finnish Wilderness. They're stick tang beasts and certainly look very attractive. Does anyone know anything more about them? Are they good/bad/indifferent? Would I be better off looking at other stick tang producers, like Helle, for instance?

Up until now, I've been a full tang devotee. I like the weight of them which, as someone has already pointed out, is all in the hand anyway, and that inherent sense of strength. I must have been lucky because none of the full tang tools I own has suffered from slab shrinkage or deformation - yet (at this point, my fingers are firmly crossed and I'm grabbing on to any available wood within reach...)! I think that, for the sake of completeness, I ought to try a stick tang but it's down to quality of manufacture, blade length and shape, handle material and so on, hence my enquiry about Finnish Wilderness.

i have owned one and its brilliant, holds a great edge and can cope with battoning, i use the same blades to make my knives and i have never had a hint of a failure, even with heavy abuse.

 

[Tiley]

Many thanks for that. I feel a Heinnie order coming on...

i have owned one and its brilliant, holds a great edge and can cope with battoning, i use the same blades to make my knives and i have never had a hint of a failure, even with heavy abuse.

 

[Siberianfury]

Many thanks for that. I feel a Heinnie order coming on...

i would reccomend one with a 95 or 105mm blade, also, when it arrives if you convex the secondary bevel it realy helps with edge holding and cutting ability.

 

[MSkiba]

I love my F1, full tang. it *looks like it can be battened by a brick, hammered into a wall with end of an axe, and the handle looks like it will not absorb game bacteria, or loose pins / scales.

For that reason, as it happens to be a full tang, I’m a full tang guy


*this may not be the case, full tang may be worst, I reserve the right to refuse to provide any evidence, proof or links to study’s that back my claims

 

[John Fenna]

I love my F1, full tang. it *looks like it can be battened by a brick, hammered into a wall with end of an axe, and the handle looks like it will not absorb game bacteria, or loose pins / scales.

For that reason, as it happens to be a full tang, I’m a full tang guy


*this may not be the case, full tang may be worst, I reserve the right to refuse to provide any evidence, proof or links to study’s that back my claims

Now we come to definitions... as the steel of the standard F1 is not visible right around the handle is it a Full Tang?
The handle completely encloses the tang - as with a stick tang - and is only visible at the butt - as with a stick tang and the handle is not pinned/riveted to the tanf - as with a stick tang.
Strictly speaking an F1 is a "concealed tang" - as is a stick tang and/or is a Full Length concealed Tang" - as is a Stick Tang .....so the evidence would seem to be that the F1 is a Stick Tang not a Full Tang - albeit a very wide Stick Tang

 

[Xunil]

... something advertised as a 'bushcraft' knife should be up for common bushcraft practice and any breakages during that show a flaw/weakness in the knife design. All the horror stories I've heard of tang breakage seem to be on Helle knives..maybe the tangs are just too thin?

A very good friend of mine who is an excellent knifemaker was asked for a D2 bushcraft knife hardened to RC62

He advised the customer that D2 at that hardness ought not to be used for batoning.

The customer insisted, and broke the knife within days of receipt, which is a out what I would expect from D2 at such a high hardness.

I am very interested in the assertations of maker error that have been voiced.

Think about it - whether you are a one-man knifemaker or a company like Helle, who wants reports of a failed knife ?

And yet here we are, blaming those responsible for production across the board for failures.

The D2 knife was full tang incidentally.

 

[Samon]

A very good friend of mine who is an excellent knifemaker was asked for a D2 bushcraft knife hardened to RC62

He advised the customer that D2 at that hardness ought not to be used for batoning.

The customer insisted, and broke the knife within days of receipt, which is a out what I would expect from D2 at such a high hardness.

I am very interested in the assertations of maker error that have been voiced.

Think about it - whether you are a one-man knifemaker or a company like Helle, who wants reports of a failed knife ?

And yet here we are, blaming those responsible for production across the board for failures.

The D2 knife was full tang incidentally.

I think we all know his knife would be too brittle for batoning but that was his design choice and clearly he didn't trust the makers advice but.. popular knife companies selling knives for 'bushcraft' that not always but can and do sometimes break due to standard bushcraft tasks are in my opinion poorly designed and poorly advertised.

Now I'm not digging at Helle, just showing a stick tang video and my associates experiences with Helle stick tangs.

I'm sure the knife in the video is ok, but I don't think it would have broken if it were a full tang contruction, the porous bone handle piece is just nasty though.

 

[MSkiba]

Now we come to definitions... as the steel of the standard F1 is not visible right around the handle is it a Full Tang?
The handle completely encloses the tang - as with a stick tang - and is only visible at the butt - as with a stick tang and the handle is not pinned/riveted to the tanf - as with a stick tang.
Strictly speaking an F1 is a "concealed tang" - as is a stick tang and/or is a Full Length concealed Tang" - as is a Stick Tang .....so the evidence would seem to be that the F1 is a Stick Tang not a Full Tang - albeit a very wide Stick Tang

Phew! Good job I added the small script! Looks like Im a concealed tang fan after all =)

 

[Samon]

Now we come to definitions... as the steel of the standard F1 is not visible right around the handle is it a Full Tang?
The handle completely encloses the tang - as with a stick tang - and is only visible at the butt - as with a stick tang and the handle is not pinned/riveted to the tanf - as with a stick tang.
Strictly speaking an F1 is a "concealed tang" - as is a stick tang and/or is a Full Length concealed Tang" - as is a Stick Tang .....so the evidence would seem to be that the F1 is a Stick Tang not a Full Tang - albeit a very wide Stick Tang

The F1 is a 'concealed tang' but can be converted to be a 'full tang' by simpley removing the plastic handle and fitting scales that bare its meat, right?

or.. is the pre-handled F1 of a different handle design to the F1 blank?

I personally wouldn't describe the F1 tang as a 'stick' but I guess it could be defined as such.

This is what the Fallkniven home page details the knife as.

Mod. F1
Total length: 210 mm (8.3")
Blade length: 97 mm (3.8")
Blade thickness: 4.5 mm (0.18"), tapered
Tang: Broad, protruding
Weight (knife): 150 g (6oz)
Steel: Lam. VG10
Blade hardness: 59 HRC
Handle: Thermorun
Sheath: All-covering leather

 

[John Fenna]

The F1 is a 'concealed tang' but can be converted to be a 'full tang' by simpley removing the plastic handle and fitting scales that bare its meat, right?

or.. is the pre-handled F1 of a different handle design to the F1 blank?

I personally wouldn't describe the F1 tang as a 'stick' but I guess it could be defined as such.

This is what the Fallkniven home page details the knife as.

Mod. F1
Total length: 210 mm (8.3")
Blade length: 97 mm (3.8")
Blade thickness: 4.5 mm (0.18"), tapered
Tang: Broad, protruding
Weight (knife): 150 g (6oz)
Steel: Lam. VG10
Blade hardness: 59 HRC
Handle: Thermorun
Sheath: All-covering leather

The standard F1 is not drilled for pins or rivets and even Fallkniven do not call it Full tang just "broad" ...as in broad stick tang?
If you wanted to drill out the F1 - after peeling it of the plastic push fitted plastic - you could turn it into a full tang....

Just call me "Which Tyler" the leader of the Pedants Revolt!

 

[Shinken]

If you wanted to drill out the F1 - after peeling it of the plastic push fitted plastic - you could turn it into a full tang....

The handle would be very narrow though