Squirrles
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Jack said:
What about the coypu in East Anglia?
Also considered vermin.
And wood pigeons, too.
Keith.
The thing is all these critters will eat whatever crops they can find, the crops can be sprayed and therfore not Organic. The Squirrel eats nuts. I have never heard of a nut farm (only the funny farm where you lot escaped from) or any commercial nut growing enterprise so i guess that nuts in the UK are Organic (I said ORGANIC). Only thing is surely Squirrels eat something other than nuts during the rest of the year? And is this organic?
Rich :roll:
Rich :roll:
I thought the coypu in East Anglia has all been eradicated?! Coypu are from South America, not North America (which is why they weren't in my original list!)
Commercial hazel nut 'farms' do occur in the UK - Kent is a hotspot. On the continent they spray hazels to reduce losses to insects however I don't know if we have the same pest species here.
Bob :-D
Commercial hazel nut 'farms' do occur in the UK - Kent is a hotspot. On the continent they spray hazels to reduce losses to insects however I don't know if we have the same pest species here.
Bob :-D
Bob said:
I know coypu are from South America, I was suggesting another "organic" (well, wild at least) vermin that might be edible.
I didn't know they'd been eradicated, though. I had a plan, way way back, to go out river camping with a couple of schoolfriends in a flat-bottomed boat with our bows, hunting the little blighters. I'd read that normally, you need a special licence to hunt with a bow, except for going after vermin. And coypu are a bit bigger than squirrels, I think.
Keith.
Keith, Was that hunting in France, cos i thought hunting with a bow was outlawed in the UK. But bunnies are classed as vermin along with woodpigeon, and those grey squirrels ? not that i'd have a hope of squewering any of um with my archery skills.
Cheers
Rich
Cheers
Rich
Roving Rich said:
No, in the UK, back in 1985/86.
In France, the situation is a bit complicated... there seem to be a fair number of bow hunters (from the few articles and ads I've seen in the hunting magazines here), but what you can go after is limited, and I think that to give the game a fair chance, you have to shout "BANG" as you loose the arrow
Hunting is quite big over here, but is mostly firearms, going for various faethered things, deer, boar. Opening and closing dates vary, depending on species and place. Sometimes, you can shoot any day of the week, sometimes not on Wednesday, sometimes not on Sunday...
If you're over here on holiday, it's really worth checking up on the dates and "off-days", or you risk serious injury and death! Last year, an old man on a bicycle was killed accidentaly by a bullet that went through a boar before hitting him...
Keith.
Hunting ANYTHING with a bow and arrow is totally outlawed in the UK. Please don't do it. Archery as a sport in the UK has a very good record for being a responsible and well deiciplined pastime and has a very good saftey record. If you were to contact GNAS you will discover that there are more things to shoot at than just round targets, but shooting animals is not on, it is not safe enough or certain enough. 22s and the more powerful airguns, ok, bows anmd arrows - NO.
silas said:
You know, I've been away from the UK for quite a while... I'm pretty sure, though, that back in 1985/86 it was quite legal to go after *vermin* with a bow, or a five-shot repeating shotgun.
My uncle had a repeater until about 1990 (IIRR), and he only used it fro pigeaons to feed his ferrets; he told me he couldn't use it on anything but vermin (rabbits included).
Anyway, like I mentioned, here in France, there are some species, somewhere, at certain times, that you can take with bow and arrow...
Keith.
Whilst it may be legal in France, you have to ask yourself if it is the right thing to do.
I consider myself to be a fairly proficient recurve archer having won many club and county competitions, but I would never consider using my bow to shoot at any wild animal, not because I think that wild animals should not be shot, but because I know, good as I am, I could not give myself a good enough guarantee that I could hit cleanly every time. There are so many variables with bow shooting and so much to go wrong. Shooting a rabbit at even 30meter requires a very high skill level and even then a poorley knocked arrow, damaged knock, slight sight misalignment, minor distraction or lack of concentration, not quite straight arrow, damaged flight... I could go on for half a page or more, but the point is that if you respect your prey, and you should!, then you be as certain as you can be of killing cleanly and a bow is not the tool for this. Furthermore, hunting arrowheads are as illigal as non folding knives and cannot be purchased for use in this country.
In North America it is quite common to hunt with a compound bow. Whilst personally I do not agree with it, it is a lot safer that using recurve or longbows as the arrow velocity is much higher, the sighting is more accurate and the release is usually by a mechanical 'trigger', however, the weight of the bow is still held by the archer, albeit a lot less than a recurve, and prolonged tension can easily lead to fatigue and a poor aim.
I can well apprechiate the satisfaction of a clean kill with a bow, but consider the alternative of a wounded animal escaping to die very badly from its wounds leaving you a bloody arrow for your troubles.
Nah, there are better ways.
Silas
I consider myself to be a fairly proficient recurve archer having won many club and county competitions, but I would never consider using my bow to shoot at any wild animal, not because I think that wild animals should not be shot, but because I know, good as I am, I could not give myself a good enough guarantee that I could hit cleanly every time. There are so many variables with bow shooting and so much to go wrong. Shooting a rabbit at even 30meter requires a very high skill level and even then a poorley knocked arrow, damaged knock, slight sight misalignment, minor distraction or lack of concentration, not quite straight arrow, damaged flight... I could go on for half a page or more, but the point is that if you respect your prey, and you should!, then you be as certain as you can be of killing cleanly and a bow is not the tool for this. Furthermore, hunting arrowheads are as illigal as non folding knives and cannot be purchased for use in this country.
In North America it is quite common to hunt with a compound bow. Whilst personally I do not agree with it, it is a lot safer that using recurve or longbows as the arrow velocity is much higher, the sighting is more accurate and the release is usually by a mechanical 'trigger', however, the weight of the bow is still held by the archer, albeit a lot less than a recurve, and prolonged tension can easily lead to fatigue and a poor aim.
I can well apprechiate the satisfaction of a clean kill with a bow, but consider the alternative of a wounded animal escaping to die very badly from its wounds leaving you a bloody arrow for your troubles.
Nah, there are better ways.
Silas
silas said:
I appreciate your concerns, and I am in full agreement about the need to respect the game, and go for a clean kill. I am not a hunter, yet. I'm going to join a gun club and do a lot of target shooting, safety classes, and try different sorts of gun before I start going after live game.
Were I to take up bow hunting, I would go through the same kind of training (outdoors, in near-real conditions). Certainly, if I had stalked an animal, and felt I was near enough, had the arrow well-nocked, had a good grip, felt that I was as sure as is humanly possible that the kill would be clean, I would loose the arrow. If conditions changed, and I was no longer sure, then I would let the animal be, rather than risk simply inflicting a wound...
I seem to remember that the reasoning behind a ban on using repeaters for shooting game, is that it encourages lazy, hasty, sloppy shooting. Forcing the hunter to go for a clean kill off just one shot is much better.
As for rabbits, I think that with a lot of practice, I could take them, at a push... but if I was really interested in getting rabbits for the pot, I think I'd rather be out there with a ferret.
Your statement that "hunting arrowheads are as illigal as non folding knives" leaves me a bit perplexed... Fixed blade knives are not illegal in the UK. I see them for sale all the time when I'm back there. I've bought a few there, too. What is considered illegal, is *carrying them in a public place without a good reason*. Long discussions about what constitutes a *good reason* have been rolling on for a while over on British Blades. I would like to see a reference to the law which states that broadheads are illegal, or that using them to hunt animals is illegal, if you know of one.
If you are sure that the law now forbids hunting with bow and arrow, and can point me in the direction of an authoritative text, then I stand corrected. Like I mentioned, I am referring to almost twenty years ago; laws change, memory is fallible; I recollect that hunting vermin (rabbits, pigeons, coypu...) with bow and arrow was permitted at the time.
Keith.
On reflection, my analagy with fixed blade knives was not entireley appropriate, but 'broadheads' are nevertheless illegal in the UK. The leading archery supplier in the UK (Quicks) lists them but are for mail order only to non UK residents.
Archery is not like any other form of shooting. When an arrow leaves the bow it is travelling very fast, very fast indeed, but it slows down very quickly so such an extent that very minor thing like the air temperature and humidity will affect its trajectory quite noticably.
If you sight your arrows on a target that is 4' above the ground and then try to aim at something 2' off the ground it is unlikeley that the arrow will even reach its target ( depending on distance and draw weight of the bow).
Before an archer shoots a competition he has six 'sighter' arrows in order to set up properley. These are required for the very reasons outlined above. If everything was constant, he would not need to set up before each shoot, he could just refer to his sight marks - if life was so simple.
The difference in sight marks between say 30meters and 60 meters is quite significant, but in order to shoot accuratly these must be set exactly.
How do you thing you would be able to shoot a rabbit when you are having to guess the distance it is away from you, bearing in mind that even a couple of yards will make a difference to your sight marks. You may be lucky and hit it cleanly, but I think it more likley that you will not.
There is a branch of archery known as field shooting where archers follow a trail around a woodland area and shoot at dummy animals and posters with animals on. The animal has a target overprinted on it and points are awarded depending on where the arrow hits. If you were to see these targets after a shoot, and bear in mind that the archers generally are well practices individuals, you would be horrified to see how many miss the target area by a long way - and these targets are static.
To be absoloutly confident of shooting live game I would suggest that you should be able to place ten arrows consecutively within a 20cm circle at 30 meters. If you could do that, you could represent England in the next Olympics, but then you would still have the problem of the sighting distance.
In North America, they have sighting gauges to accuratly determine the distance at which the prey is. You can get them for use over here, but no-one, as far as I know sells them as they cannot be used in field competitions and there really is no other use for them. They tend to hunt much bigger stuff over there, deer etc.
No, leave archery hunting where it belongs - in the past.
Silas
Archery is not like any other form of shooting. When an arrow leaves the bow it is travelling very fast, very fast indeed, but it slows down very quickly so such an extent that very minor thing like the air temperature and humidity will affect its trajectory quite noticably.
If you sight your arrows on a target that is 4' above the ground and then try to aim at something 2' off the ground it is unlikeley that the arrow will even reach its target ( depending on distance and draw weight of the bow).
Before an archer shoots a competition he has six 'sighter' arrows in order to set up properley. These are required for the very reasons outlined above. If everything was constant, he would not need to set up before each shoot, he could just refer to his sight marks - if life was so simple.
The difference in sight marks between say 30meters and 60 meters is quite significant, but in order to shoot accuratly these must be set exactly.
How do you thing you would be able to shoot a rabbit when you are having to guess the distance it is away from you, bearing in mind that even a couple of yards will make a difference to your sight marks. You may be lucky and hit it cleanly, but I think it more likley that you will not.
There is a branch of archery known as field shooting where archers follow a trail around a woodland area and shoot at dummy animals and posters with animals on. The animal has a target overprinted on it and points are awarded depending on where the arrow hits. If you were to see these targets after a shoot, and bear in mind that the archers generally are well practices individuals, you would be horrified to see how many miss the target area by a long way - and these targets are static.
To be absoloutly confident of shooting live game I would suggest that you should be able to place ten arrows consecutively within a 20cm circle at 30 meters. If you could do that, you could represent England in the next Olympics, but then you would still have the problem of the sighting distance.
In North America, they have sighting gauges to accuratly determine the distance at which the prey is. You can get them for use over here, but no-one, as far as I know sells them as they cannot be used in field competitions and there really is no other use for them. They tend to hunt much bigger stuff over there, deer etc.
No, leave archery hunting where it belongs - in the past.
Silas
I'd still like to see the text of the law; I've seen so much rubbish (bad interpretation of a law, or even downright falsehood) spouted by knife retailers, that I no longer take things on hearsay...silas said:
I'm not questioning your good faith, but retailers sometimes err on the side of caution, rather than risk running foul of the law.
That's the kind of thing I was thinking of, but had forgotten the name. Field archery. As I understand it, you hold the bow differently, so you can use that old stereoscopic vision to judge the distances better.silas said:
silas said:
You know, *if* I was going to try bow hunting, I wouldn't be going after small animals. I'd be going after a bigger target, like an ibex.
You certainly seem to know quite a lot about archery. Do you, by any chance, know about making traditional longbows? I'm after some wood, and I've read that lemon can be used (yew being expensive and difficult to get in a bow-length).
silas said:
There are quite a lot of people who say that hunting should be abandoned altogether, now that we have farmed meat...
Hunting isn't about going out and killing things, or about filling your belly cheaper than going to the butcher's shop.
Keith.
Longbows Ahh....
Many longbowmen do indeed makew their own bows. Numerous kits are avalable and I would seriously suggest that you start with one of those as it will have all of the materials that you reqire in the kit. Most longbows ( except yew) are a composite of two or three woods and, yes, lemon wood is very often a component.
Try Richard Head on 01225 790452 or Quicks www.quicks.com for kits or ready made longbows.
Longbow sights consist basicaslly of a small rubber band placed around the top limb and simply moved up and down to obtain a distance sight mark. Very basic and very much a back to nature type thing, but great fun and most longbow men will not shoot anything else. Most of these guys also make their own arrows as well ( Many of them dress in 'traditional' costumes for competitions, although us 'real'archers think that this is simply an excuse for them to carry a hip flask of their favourite tipple).
Yew is and indeed was, rareley used for longbows. It is, and was, very expensive, English yew is no good, it has to be Spanish or similar. a yew bow is made fron a section of the tree that has a lightwood core. this is used in section on the bow so the bow looks like it is made of two different woods longditudinally. the woods work against each other to provide the required 'springiness'. Having said that, Yew is the best material, but it is very expensive, a Hickory and Lemonwood bow may cost £150.00 ready made but you could easily pay four times that for a yew bow. I have never made one myself, although I know several people who have and it is not at all difficult if you have a modicum of skill in woodcarving and a half decent spokeshave.
I am not against hunting. Far from it, I would rather eat a 'free range' pheasant or rabbit than a farmed chicken, but I do think that if one is going to hunt one has a duty to do the job properly and cause as little suffering as possible. I am sure that you would agree with these sentiments from reading your responses.
Some half assed attempt to shoot an animal with a bothched up bow and arrow is not, in my opinion, a sport, just a self gratification that I don't think should be indulged.
Silas
Many longbowmen do indeed makew their own bows. Numerous kits are avalable and I would seriously suggest that you start with one of those as it will have all of the materials that you reqire in the kit. Most longbows ( except yew) are a composite of two or three woods and, yes, lemon wood is very often a component.
Try Richard Head on 01225 790452 or Quicks www.quicks.com for kits or ready made longbows.
Longbow sights consist basicaslly of a small rubber band placed around the top limb and simply moved up and down to obtain a distance sight mark. Very basic and very much a back to nature type thing, but great fun and most longbow men will not shoot anything else. Most of these guys also make their own arrows as well ( Many of them dress in 'traditional' costumes for competitions, although us 'real'archers think that this is simply an excuse for them to carry a hip flask of their favourite tipple).
Yew is and indeed was, rareley used for longbows. It is, and was, very expensive, English yew is no good, it has to be Spanish or similar. a yew bow is made fron a section of the tree that has a lightwood core. this is used in section on the bow so the bow looks like it is made of two different woods longditudinally. the woods work against each other to provide the required 'springiness'. Having said that, Yew is the best material, but it is very expensive, a Hickory and Lemonwood bow may cost £150.00 ready made but you could easily pay four times that for a yew bow. I have never made one myself, although I know several people who have and it is not at all difficult if you have a modicum of skill in woodcarving and a half decent spokeshave.
I am not against hunting. Far from it, I would rather eat a 'free range' pheasant or rabbit than a farmed chicken, but I do think that if one is going to hunt one has a duty to do the job properly and cause as little suffering as possible. I am sure that you would agree with these sentiments from reading your responses.
Some half assed attempt to shoot an animal with a bothched up bow and arrow is not, in my opinion, a sport, just a self gratification that I don't think should be indulged.
Silas
Thanks for the advice on longbows.
I did a bit of archery when I was about 15 to 17, just for fun (no competitions), and still have my Jacques black (fibreglass?) recurve bow; I think it's a 45lb pull at 33 inches. The "sight" was a bit of foam, with a pin stuck in it, but I rarely used it, prefering to do it all "by eye alone".
I had a go, just for an afternoon, last summer with a borrowed bow (and no sight), and have been thinking of taking up archery again. Maybe the "funny dressing up" brigade too!
Keith.
I did a bit of archery when I was about 15 to 17, just for fun (no competitions), and still have my Jacques black (fibreglass?) recurve bow; I think it's a 45lb pull at 33 inches. The "sight" was a bit of foam, with a pin stuck in it, but I rarely used it, prefering to do it all "by eye alone".
I had a go, just for an afternoon, last summer with a borrowed bow (and no sight), and have been thinking of taking up archery again. Maybe the "funny dressing up" brigade
too!Keith.
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