Spontaneous Combustion

[rich59]

I was using some Teak Oil today. The label says to be careful about disposal of the cloth as it may be prone to spontaneous combustion.

This begs several questions:-

How is this possible?

Could I make it do it?

Has anyone experienced this?

Are there natural products that could do this?

Could this concept be used for fire starting?

 

[Toddy]

It'a an exothermic reaction and if the heat can't escape the cloth will burst into fire. Linseed oil is renowned for doing this, but it has to be on something like a cloth and left for a bit to flare up.
There have been various threads about this....I'll see what I can find.

Cheers,
Toddy

Edit: Links added.
http://www.sintef.no/content/page1____7975.aspx
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/inflin.shtm

 

[Ogri the trog]

I was using some Teak Oil today. The label says to be careful about disposal of the cloth as it may be prone to spontaneous combustion.

This begs several questions:-

How is this possible?

Could I make it do it?

Has anyone experienced this?

Are there natural products that could do this?

Could this concept be used for fire starting?

Rich,
From what little I remember, linseed is reknowned for this - though to be reliable, it has to be about a pint of oil, soaked into a large wad of cotton wool and left alone for many hours in an insulated container.
Lofty Wiseman mentions something about it in his SAS survival book. Personally, I'd rather carry less weight into the bush to get a fire going but if you were to stumble across cotton wool and linseed oil next to a pile of wood and nothing else, it might be worth a try

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Longstrider]

I don't know about "natural" products being used for this Rich, but I do know one easy and certain way of making fire with simple chemicals.
Add glycerol (also sold as glycerine) to a small heap of potassium permangenate crystals and stand well back. The last time I demonstrated this I chose to put the mix on top of an upturned tin can. The initial reaction and fire were visible, but the immense heat meant that it soon all disapeared from view as it melted through the can and fell in. The reaction takes a few seconds to get going, but as a fire starter it's very effective but relatively short-lived.

 

[QDanT]

I don't know about "natural" products being used for this Rich, but I do know one easy and certain way of making fire with simple chemicals.
Add glycerol (also sold as glycerine) to a small heap of potassium permangenate crystals and stand well back. The last time I demonstrated this I chose to put the mix on top of an upturned tin can. The initial reaction and fire were visible, but the immense heat meant that it soon all disapeared from view as it melted through the can and fell in. The reaction takes a few seconds to get going, but as a fire starter it's very effective but relatively short-lived.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Like wet hay in a barn, oily rags are known to do this... which is why closable metal containers are often provided for their disposal in a workshop environment.

There is a much easier way to experience spontaneous combustion by the way...and it fits in your pocket....

 

[Longstrider]

Jeff, Surely the more obvious methods that "fit in your pocket" actually involve fire by friction rather than spontaneous combustion. Lighters with a flint, matches, and even your trusty fire piston all involve friction. OK, so lighters with a piezo electric ignition system dont use friction per-say, but it's hardly spontaneous.
Not sure I'd be happy carrying anything in my pocket that was likely to spontaneously combust. Hell, I even went off Swan Vestas after seeing a mate fall from a tree with a box of them in his back pocket. We all ran to see if he was OK, and he passed us at twice our speed going towards the stream with his backside on fire !

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Spontaneous combustion def - A process by which a collection of materials (such as oily rags) catches fire without the application of heat from outside. The oxidation of substances in the materials starts the fire.

Forgive me Longstrider, however ignition in a fire piston is not caused by friction per se. It is caused by compression of the air molecules, which causes a pulse point at which the air temperature is raised to the ignition point. I suppose one could make a case that it is friction between the molecules. By definition, spontaneous combustion involves "combustion without an external application of heat". Therefore I submit that a fire piston demonstrates a pressure induced form of spontaneous combustion.

 

[Longstrider]

Yes, I was referring to the molecular friction of the air as it's compressed. As I see it, "spontaneous" leads me to think of a process which involves not only the absence of added heat but the absence of added energy too. The chemical burn I told of happens if the two materials simply come into contact with one another, the fire piston needs the application of a good amount of kinetic energy before the air can become sufficiently compressed.
Hell, why split hairs over it? Both methods are fun!

 

[match]

Cotton wool or rags soaked in linseed oil work very well in a fire piston, since they require very little heat increase to set off the reaction

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Cotton wool or rags soaked in linseed oil work very well in a fire piston, since they require very little heat increase to set off the reaction

OH...I'd be cautious with that one as its getting very close to a combustible fuel with a handheld diesel cylinder. I once had a fellow complain that he blew up his nice new fire piston by putting cut match heads inside.... just to see what might happen. I think he was very fortunate to retain the use of all digits....

 

[bambodoggy]

Damp straw definately works well....as Dave Watson (Firelighting workshop) found out at last years Wilderness Gathering when the roofrack on his landy went up.... :yikes:

Luckily Dave was quick to put it out and no harm was done but we were all impressed at how good his firelighting was....he only had to look at things and they burst into flames! lol

Whether you could reliably recreate this at will I do not know but it certainly happens

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[rich59]

Found a great page on this

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/spontaneouscombustion/rbjul05/index.html

I'm tempted to further the experiment. I would guess that a really well insulated long vertical tube with a good flow of air would be interesting as the air would warm while going up the column and encourage the oil/ cloth higher up to warm even more.

Kitchen roll cardboard tube looks a good candidate.

 

[Toddy]

Just don't try it in the kitchen New doormats are getting expensive

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Doc]

I vaguely remember reading that the jurassic coal from the mine at Brora had sulphur or pyrite or something in it, and would sometimes self ignite. I've not verified the accuracy of this.

 

[bushtuckerman]

I once had a safety match spontaneously combust on me when pounding it in a tube with a piston

I think in real life 'spontaneous' implies there is no human influence at the time of ignition, i.e. a chemical reaction. It is fairly common to consider the friction of air molecules on each other.

Potassium permanganate and glucose spontaneously combust...it's a good way to light rockets on a timed fuse...

 

[Abbe Osram]

As a painter I know that linseed oil in a cotton towel can combust and burn down your studio and house. Oil painters often suffer this problem, so we are tought to dump the cotton towels into a bowl with water and not keeping them laying around in the studio. I heard from several artist that suddenly they had a fire in the studio starting all from itself by combustion.

cheers
Abbe

 

[demographic]

Like wet hay in a barn

Exactly what I was going to say, there have been numerous incedents of wet hay spontaniously combusting in barns.

As for linseed oil isn't it the raw stuff that does it and not the boiled stuff?

 

[browndrake]

In our woodshop, we are carefull to hang out our stain rags and dry them before discarding them. I have seen rags sponeously combust, more than once, from people being careless with rags used to finish furniture.

 

[rich59]

As an experiment I have made some rolls of cloth wetted with raw linseed oil and have them upright in my garden. After a few hours they seem pretty cold. I think I haven't got the hang of how to make this work yet.