Space Problems?

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
46
North Yorkshire, UK
It's probably just my ginormous bum, but I found putting anything on the bottom of my pack very annoying, as it pushed on me buttocks. It's counter-intuitive, but putting weight on *top* of the rucksack can be easier to balance. It's a bit like balancing a pencil on your finger - easier to do it when the weight is up high.

At all costs, don't strap things on the 'back' of the rucksack (like you have it in the first pic). Weight needs to be as close as possible to your spine.

Sleeping bags - if you crush them in a compression sack, they are smaller in volume but an awkward rigid shape. Un-crushed, they are easier to fit in your rucksack.
 

Mike313

Nomad
Apr 6, 2014
276
31
South East
Talk about coincidence. I have just been upstairs messing about with my biggest rucksack (a cheapie - Trespass Trek 66) trying to figure out the best way to carry my tent (another cheapie - Vango Talas 300). I think I favour the idea of keeping it outside the rucksack as, if it rains (as it sometimes does!) I don't really want to put it back inside the rucksack wet, as the tent bag isn't waterproof and would leak into the rucksack. So I've tried two ways of packing it on the outside. I have two straps low down on the rear of my pack and I can pack it there -

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The problem is that the weight is 'out' from my back and I can fee an extra pull on my shoulders that might be annoying after an hour or two.

The second option (as per GGTBod's suggestion) is to put it under the lid -

P1010987_zpssd1iqd8e.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

I think this would work well on most rucksacks but on mine, the lid is domed and is forced forward, so that it tips against the back of my head as I walk.

I have three other possibilities I suppose:
1. Get a waterproof bag, put the tent + poles in it, and put it vertically in the centre of my rucksack against my back; or
2. Since I have a tripod-type seat that probably weighs the same as the tent-poles, put the seat and tent-poles vertically in the rucksack, either centrally, or one left and one right next to my back; then scrunch the tent into a waterproof bag that would fit in the domed lid, or
3. Add two new buckles on the underside of the ruck next to my back so that I can attach the tent directly underneath.

I don't know if any of that is any help to you / food for thought etc. with you rucksack.
 

sandbag47

Full Member
Jun 12, 2007
2,104
140
57
northampton
Just in case you have a bad day when you can't put tge the tent away because it is wet or something like that you could always carry a couple of bungies. They come in handy for a hole load of 'what if's'
 
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stonehippo

Forager
May 15, 2011
167
1
Birmingham
When that rucksack is stuffed full, it will way a ton. Do you have walking poles as well? They will save your knees and ease the walking.
 

GGTBod

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 28, 2014
3,209
26
1
I really enjoyed that movie, made me wish i could walk properly.
 

GGTBod

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 28, 2014
3,209
26
1
I love my walking poles i'd not get far without them with a pack on my back, you did look like you were trekking Kilimanjaro though doing the 100 meters from your camp to your car
 

caorach

Forager
Nov 26, 2014
156
0
UK
I have a similar problem to you but am maybe about 30 minutes ahead of you on my journey of discovery and am currently looking at getting weight down, which means reducing volume as well if I want a lighter rucksack. Here are my investigations so far.

My sleeping bag (Snugpack tactical rated to -7 and synthetic so probably a similar volume to yours) and tent (Vango Banshee 200 the same as yours) will fit into the main compartment of my Sting rucksack which is sold as 55l. The Sting is a very, very heavy pack and so is an obvious easy gain in terms of weight saving for me so I need to think about volume a little. Here is a photo I've just taken of the tent and sleeping bag side by side in the rucksack, the tent is packed in its bag and the sleeping bag is completely uncompressed:



Now I suspect that, perhaps, your rucksack may be a little less wide than the Sting as that is the current trend so you might not get the two things in there side by side. However, it should be longer and my tent comes maybe 3 - 6 inches short of the top of the main part of my rucksack. So, perhaps if you compressed your sleeping bag it might go in the bottom with the tent stood up on top?

To give you some idea of my volumes here are pictures of my sleeping bag (uncompressed) and tent. As you have the same tent this should give you some feel for the scale of things:





So, having seen your problem I thought to see if the sleeping bag would compress enough to go horizontal in the bottom of the rucksack with the tent above it standing "upright." First of all here is what they look like alongside the rucksack but uncompressed:



My sleeping bag will go into the rucksack across the bag rather than straight up. So I set about compressing the sleeping bag a little and here is what I ended up with, this was without too much effort put into the compressing and I could probably have done a tiny bit better:



So, now we go for the bag. I put the sleeping bag in the bottom and it filled most, but not all, of the bottom of the rucksack leaving maybe 3 - 4 inches of width free, then I stood the tent up on top of it. The view from the top down the bag looks like this:



I'd say there is room for at least one, and probably two, more similar tents to stand up in there. Because the bag is falling away from the tent under gravity this is what it looks lying down, so you can see that I could easily close the lid. The tent and sleeping bag are in there in the same arrangement as above:



What I also discovered was that there was enough width remaining right to the bottom of the bag that I could actually push the tent right down into the bottom beside the sleeping bag. This seemed to leave quite a lot of space so I took a 10l dry bag and stuffed it with "stuff" and it easily fits in the free space:



In fact there still seemed like a lot of space so in went a 5l fully stuffed dry bag:



There are still plenty of little voids between all the bags and tent so I figure a couple of 1l bottles or a fuel bottle plus tent pegs, gloves, hat and that sort of stuff could still easily fit in there stuffed down between the bigger things. Also once I push things down a little and look carefully I'm still really about 4 inches short of actually being full to the top so I managed to get waterproofs, cook gear, mug, stove and so on into that space.

After all of that I have sleeping bag, tent, a 10l dry bag, a 5l dry bag, waterproofs, cooking pots, stove, mug and other odds and ends all in a 55l bag. I would say I have 20 litres of extra stuff over and above the tent and sleeping bag in there and the bag isn't completely stuffed full to bursting nor is there anything even close to coming over the top of the main fabric of the bag.

Then I went and got my 33l bag. I suspect this is probably actually 23+10 but don't know for sure. The problem was that the compressed sleeping bag would only barely fit through the top opening and when I stood the tent on top of it then it was far too long for the bag. However, if I folded the tent into a rectangle rather than rolled it I'd guess it would fit. Far from ideal I know but an interesting exercise.

So, that's been my experience in experimenting with rucksack volume using similar gear to what you have and a rucksack with a main compartment volume claimed to be 55l.

So here are some hints and tips for you:

When putting the sleeping bag into its compression sack stuff it in randomly, don't roll it or fold it as that will never compress as tightly as one you randomly stuff in.

When putting your tent away use the poles as a guide to the width you need - put the poles into their little sack and fold the tent, that is to say along the long axis so you are reducing width but not length at this stage, to make it just about the same width as the poles at the very widest part. Then put the poles right in the middle and fold it in half so the poles are right at the fold. Then start rolling it up. I've been surprised at how successful this method has been for me.
 
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
225
westmidlands
It's probably just my ginormous bum, but I found putting anything on the bottom of my pack very annoying, as it pushed on me buttocks. It's counter-intuitive, but putting weight on *top* of the rucksack can be easier to balance. It's a bit like balancing a pencil on your finger - easier to do it when the weight is up high.

The straps on the outside of the rucksack from the base to just above the sleeping bag compartment is what you use to stop this happening, they raise the base to stop the bashing upon ones derierre!

As for the pack space, remove the poles and fold the tent to the dimensions of your rucksack. It will compress in a short time. Anything in a round stuff sack is a nightmare to pack. The sleeping bag goes in the sleeping bag compartment. Anything you strap to the outside of your rucksack causes swaying, the most I run to is a loaf of bread ant 800g and thats still noticeable.
 
Mar 26, 2015
99
0
Birmingham, UK
When that rucksack is stuffed full, it will way a ton. Do you have walking poles as well? They will save your knees and ease the walking.

I did a weigh-in tonight, base weight is 22lbs, and it feels totally fine on my back :) (I'm like a mule: ask me to run and I'll probably kick you, but I'm not 'weak') I reckon me and old red here will get along just fine :)

Oh and yes, I got me a pair of Black Diamond poles (they were on the pack in the pic, but perhaps you can't see them in the photo)

Only thing this pack is missing is a box of windproof matches, and food.
 
Mar 26, 2015
99
0
Birmingham, UK
I have a similar problem to you but am maybe about 30 minutes ahead of you on my journey of discovery and am currently looking at getting weight down, which means reducing volume as well if I want a lighter rucksack. Here are my investigations so far.

My sleeping bag (Snugpack tactical rated to -7 and synthetic so probably a similar volume to yours) and tent (Vango Banshee 200 the same as yours) will fit into the main compartment of my Sting rucksack which is sold as 55l. The Sting is a very, very heavy pack and so is an obvious easy gain in terms of weight saving for me so I need to think about volume a little. Here is a photo I've just taken of the tent and sleeping bag side by side in the rucksack, the tent is packed in its bag and the sleeping bag is completely uncompressed:



Now I suspect that, perhaps, your rucksack may be a little less wide than the Sting as that is the current trend so you might not get the two things in there side by side. However, it should be longer and my tent comes maybe 3 - 6 inches short of the top of the main part of my rucksack. So, perhaps if you compressed your sleeping bag it might go in the bottom with the tent stood up on top?

To give you some idea of my volumes here are pictures of my sleeping bag (uncompressed) and tent. As you have the same tent this should give you some feel for the scale of things:





So, having seen your problem I thought to see if the sleeping bag would compress enough to go horizontal in the bottom of the rucksack with the tent above it standing "upright." First of all here is what they look like alongside the rucksack but uncompressed:



My sleeping bag will go into the rucksack across the bag rather than straight up. So I set about compressing the sleeping bag a little and here is what I ended up with, this was without too much effort put into the compressing and I could probably have done a tiny bit better:



So, now we go for the bag. I put the sleeping bag in the bottom and it filled most, but not all, of the bottom of the rucksack leaving maybe 3 - 4 inches of width free, then I stood the tent up on top of it. The view from the top down the bag looks like this:



I'd say there is room for at least one, and probably two, more similar tents to stand up in there. Because the bag is falling away from the tent under gravity this is what it looks lying down, so you can see that I could easily close the lid. The tent and sleeping bag are in there in the same arrangement as above:



What I also discovered was that there was enough width remaining right to the bottom of the bag that I could actually push the tent right down into the bottom beside the sleeping bag. This seemed to leave quite a lot of space so I took a 10l dry bag and stuffed it with "stuff" and it easily fits in the free space:



In fact there still seemed like a lot of space so in went a 5l fully stuffed dry bag:



There are still plenty of little voids between all the bags and tent so I figure a couple of 1l bottles or a fuel bottle plus tent pegs, gloves, hat and that sort of stuff could still easily fit in there stuffed down between the bigger things. Also once I push things down a little and look carefully I'm still really about 4 inches short of actually being full to the top so I managed to get waterproofs, cook gear, mug, stove and so on into that space.

After all of that I have sleeping bag, tent, a 10l dry bag, a 5l dry bag, waterproofs, cooking pots, stove, mug and other odds and ends all in a 55l bag. I would say I have 20 litres of extra stuff over and above the tent and sleeping bag in there and the bag isn't completely stuffed full to bursting nor is there anything even close to coming over the top of the main fabric of the bag.

Then I went and got my 33l bag. I suspect this is probably actually 23+10 but don't know for sure. The problem was that the compressed sleeping bag would only barely fit through the top opening and when I stood the tent on top of it then it was far too long for the bag. However, if I folded the tent into a rectangle rather than rolled it I'd guess it would fit. Far from ideal I know but an interesting exercise.

So, that's been my experience in experimenting with rucksack volume using similar gear to what you have and a rucksack with a main compartment volume claimed to be 55l.

So here are some hints and tips for you:

When putting the sleeping bag into its compression sack stuff it in randomly, don't roll it or fold it as that will never compress as tightly as one you randomly stuff in.

When putting your tent away use the poles as a guide to the width you need - put the poles into their little sack and fold the tent, that is to say along the long axis so you are reducing width but not length at this stage, to make it just about the same width as the poles at the very widest part. Then put the poles right in the middle and fold it in half so the poles are right at the fold. Then start rolling it up. I've been surprised at how successful this method has been for me.

Interesting!!!

I have found that I actually have a decent amount of room in my 65L after packing all the crap into it. The chap who sold it to me (who owns the men's version of the same pack), said that it's 65L but actually fits up to 70L thanks to the roomy top section. I believe that; I have 22lbs of weight altogether (including pack weight), and there's so much space still left inside!!
 
Mar 26, 2015
99
0
Birmingham, UK
It's probably just my ginormous bum, but I found putting anything on the bottom of my pack very annoying, as it pushed on me buttocks. It's counter-intuitive, but putting weight on *top* of the rucksack can be easier to balance. It's a bit like balancing a pencil on your finger - easier to do it when the weight is up high.

At all costs, don't strap things on the 'back' of the rucksack (like you have it in the first pic). Weight needs to be as close as possible to your spine.

Sleeping bags - if you crush them in a compression sack, they are smaller in volume but an awkward rigid shape. Un-crushed, they are easier to fit in your rucksack.

I don't know what rucksack you own, but when I first packed mine, my HIP strap sat somewhere around my upper thigh. Then I poked around and realised that the strap was length-adjustable, and a few inches of movement meant it fit me PERFECTLY (seriously it's like it was made for me, and I am such an awkward height and build!). Does your waist strap adjust vertically?
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
46
North Yorkshire, UK
I don't know what rucksack you own, but when I first packed mine, my HIP strap sat somewhere around my upper thigh. Then I poked around and realised that the strap was length-adjustable, and a few inches of movement meant it fit me PERFECTLY (seriously it's like it was made for me, and I am such an awkward height and build!). Does your waist strap adjust vertically?
I'm long-backed - the hip strap is at a low point on my rucksack. The problem is more that I have a protruding bum. Like half a basketball stuck on a broomstick.
 

Miyagi

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 6, 2008
2,298
5
South Queensferry
As the cold wet weather is here, and no doubt going to get colder and wetter, I chop and change between bulky wool blankets and an army arctic bag.

The wool blankets get stamped into the bottom of my bergan. It was the sleeping bag that caused me major grief though; inside the bergan it took up loads of space, even when loose and trampled down. Strapped above or below the bergan it was an irritating bouncing bomb that either whacked the back of my legs or bopped the back of my head every other step.

My solution? I lined my bergan with a heavy duty bin liner/garden sack and then opened up the sleeping bag and lined the bin bag with that. In effect my arctic bag became a large sack. Everything else I'm taking is bagged and placed inside the sleeping bag. As the arctic bag is the last thing out anyway, I didn't need it until camp was set up.

Hope this helps.

Liam
 
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widu13

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 9, 2008
2,334
19
Ubique Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt
As said the best way to maximise the space is to keep the sleeping bag out of the compression sack and stuff it at the bottom of the bag where it will use up all of the available space.

When you say base weight this usually means everything less food, water and fuel. With the weight of your gear I doubt that your base weight is 10kg!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 
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GGTBod

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 28, 2014
3,209
26
1
Amazing how quick food weight adds up too especially if you are taking anything more than freeze dried and dehydrated ingredients, once you start adding little treats, snacks and heaven forbid tins of stuff you can easily double your pack weight just carrying enough grub for 3 or 4 days, when i go solo i use all freeze dried and dehydrated ingredients and 2 weeks of food is just under 7 kilo and fits into 2/3rds of a 20ltr dry bag
 

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