snake bite anti venom?

[He' s left the building]

I have just found this link quite by accident, looks like there may be some useful background info on there (although much of it seems to relate to N America or present military duty)

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120729&fpart=1

Haven't had chance to fully read it through yet (going to work in seven hours and I'm just about to go to my bed, yes I am working unusual hours this week?!) but thought I'd post the link here or I'd probably forget all about it after the next twelve hour epic!

 

[scrubcutter]

Regarding Adders in this country they are not as bad as many people make out. The deaths that have occurred in the last century (six I think) were mostly as a result of an allergic reaction to the anti-venom. In other words the anti-venom is more likely to kill someone that the venom is!

To put it in perspective, more people have died from bee stings in the same period, 13 in all when I last heard (I stand to be corrected on the exact figure), although of course more people are stung by bees than are bitten by Adders but nonetheless. The number of people that have been killed in road accidents is...........

I know two people that were bitten - both got symptoms, swelling, aching, and increased heart beat. The best thing they said they did was to take an antihistamine tablet. Basically the same thing you do when a bee stings you. Indeed, one of the blokes said that a bee sting is worse!!

Many people have an unfounded fear of Adders. I used to be wary of them but having since studied and handled them I now know that there are virtually harmless when treated with respect and gentleness. There has been many occasion when I have sat in the grass on the edge of a cliff and a rustle nearby reveals itself as an Adder wandering through, tongue flicking out. If you stay still they will pass by but if you're really lucky (and honoured) they will actually slip onto your chest, curl up, and use your body heat to warm themselves up, as happened to me one spring evening - 20 minutes later it slid off into the grass again and away - bloody brilliant!

It saddens me when I lift up a piece of tin to see what's under it to find a flattened Adder, or Grass Snake (non-venomous), that someone has jumped on to kill it. I can never understand why they can't leave them in peace. Perhaps the same reason people squash spiders - fear.

Anyway, suffice to say that if you don't act like a predator towards them, they'll leave you alone.

Steve,
...an ardent Adder admirer.


PS. Our other snake, the Smooth Snake, is also non-venomous and a lot rarer.

 

[ManOtheWoods]

I don't know an awful lot about snake bites but one thing I was always told was that if bitten NOT to tourniquet the affected limb. The reasoning behind this was that the venom if it goes direct to the blood stream then you would not get a tourniquet on fast enough to prevent the spread of the toxin. All the tourniquet helps to do is to cut off the blood supply to the bitten limb causing potential complications in wound healing. The anti venom thing is also an interesting topic, I know when out in Costa Rica and Nicaragua that we never carried anti venom and we were often hundreds of miles from anything that remotely resembled a hospital and we had the likes of the bushmaster, and fleur de lance to consider! I think it was due to the fact that the anti venom had the potential to do more harm than good in untrained hands. We were also warned about young snakes, I believe that this was because the young snakes can inject more venom than an adult as they have yet to learn how much to inject (not sure how accurate this is?)

I have never encountered an aggressive snake so far but on one occasion I did come across a very strange snake again whilst in Nicaragua. This one, a bush master I think, actually made a beeline for one of the other trekkers. We'd been trekking for a while and this snake was just sat in the hedge. We ignored it but it decided to tag along as we walked along the road, it followed on the edge of the hedge. After a few hundred metres the snake then went onto the road straight at the trekker, it didn't try and avoid her and actually went over her feet!! To this day I have no idea why it did not bite her and why it didn't try and avoid us!

 

[mariobab]

Anti-venom should be applied only if indicated(talking about European vipers),or else it could do more damage.We have three poisonous vipers ;Vipera Berus(adder),and subspeciesVipera Berus Bosniensis,Vipera ursinii macrops(Meadow viper),and most poisonous in Europe Vipera ammodytes ammodytes(Horned viper).For the last one there are many myths,like it waits in the trees and jumps on by passer.That`s just isn't the truth.We are NOT their prey,and they are so smaller the us why should they attack if not forced to or scarred?Sorry to say,when I was kid,many years ago,we were encouraged by elders to kill snakes,so I know they run away if they can.One has better chance to stumble on a root of tree and break the neck then get beaten by the snake.At least in Europe.

 

[mariobab]

And here I`ve found public announcement for tourists:

Bite signs

At the place of the bite one can see two small wounds made by snake teeth. Sometimes only one can be seen. The very bite does not mean the snake has injected the poison. In as much as 22% of proved bites, signs of poisoning did not exist.


Signs of poisoning (not all have to be distinct):

* Dizziness
* Nausea and vomiting
* Pain and swelling at the place of the bite
* Swelling of lymph nodes at the groin after a bite in the leg, or armpit after a bite in the arm.
* Shock is the most dangerous effect of the bite.

PROCEDURE:

* Bitten person has to lay still.
* Immobilize leg or arm where the bite wound is. In that way you can slow down spreading of the poison in the organism.
* Transport the person to the nearest hospital as soon as possible.
DO NOT tie off the bitten limb.
DO NOT cut the wound.
DO NOT suck out the poison.
DO NOT put ice on the bite wound.

MOST IMPORTANT: Although snake antiserum can be bought in pharmacies, NEVER INJECT THEM TO ONESELF OR OTHER PERSON WITHOUT PROPER MEDICAL SUPERVISION!!!! Persons sensitive to serum can form a reaction of fast hypersensitivity (anaphylactic shock), which can be lethal if its symptoms aren't soon reduced. Therefore, injection of antiserum ("antidote") without medical supervision can be more dangerous than poisoning symptoms themselves . Snake antiserum is a special medical preparation which can be given only in hospitals under strict medical supervision!

It has to be mentioned that poorly performed first aid can only worsen the state of a bitten person.

It is often thought that it is good to cut the wound and suck out as much poison as possible. This can be done only by a trained person, because cutting the wound only increases bleeding, and if, for example, unsterile knives or razors are used, infection of the wound can occur.

Some authors propose placing a bandage to prevent spreading of the poison. Such a bandage has to be tight enough to slow down spreading of the poison, but not to disturb blood circulation. Since it is difficult for an inexperienced person to determine what is “strong” enough to stop the poison, and “loose” enough to let the blood flow, it is not recommended to bandage the wound. Too tight bandages can severely worsen the state of the bitten part of the body and cause gangrene.

Very serious poisonings are rare and lethal cases almost unknown if treatment is performed in 6 to 10 hours after the bite. As a matter of fact, lethal cases caused by snake bite are so rare, that in the areas where horned viper is a common animal more people die from natural disasters (earthquake, floods) than snake bite.

Snake should not be caught, because results of the hunt are most often additional bites .

Here most bites occur in spring and summer when snakes are most active. Horned viper is dangerous especially at the end of August when it climbs trees and shrubs (1 to 1.5 m high) in search for young birds, i.e. prey, when people can accidentally disturb them.

 

[Tengu]

That is very good advice.

You mentioned Shock can be the worst symptom, any good advice on dealing with this, as its not just snakebites that cause it and it can be a real killer in any situation.

 

[mariobab]

That is very good question.I believe that is worth a new thread,and that some of members that are medical educated could help with advice

 

[firecrest]

"PS. Our other snake, the Smooth Snake, is also non-venomous and a lot rarer."
Ive never seen a single one of our snakes, they must all be rare