I take it you are not aware that Adders are protected, any disturbance including KILLING them is a criminal offence and totally illegal.
Well done for pubicly admitting it on an open forum.
snake bite anti venom?
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I take it you are not aware that Adders are protected, any disturbance including KILLING them is a criminal offence and totally illegal.
Well done for pubicly admitting it on an open forum.
In all fairness I don't think John can be lambasted too heavily for his actions some 25 years ago and he did state that the killing of the snake was more of a panic reaction as opposed to willful destruction. If I am not much mistaken the Adder received protection following the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 so it is quite possible that at that time John may not have been aware of it's protected status but I am certain he is well aware of it now being somewhat longer in the tooth (and beard) and heightened public awareness given the passage of timeI take it you are not aware that Adders are protected, any disturbance including KILLING them is a criminal offence and totally illegal.
Well done for pubicly admitting it on an open forum.
Regardless, there is no evidence other than his word that he destroyed the animal, and thus no reason for alarm or fear of prosecution.
Well. Unless he's got a REALLY slow digestive tract!
If we went around believing people's *word* our prisons would be empty, wouldn't they?
As to carrying epipens, is epenephrine the correct general treatment for those envenomations? I'm not a medic, just someone who reads too much, but i seem to remember hearing that some envenomations you're safer with the likes of atropine than epeneprhine.
I've visited the himalayas, china, indonesia, and the philipines and most of the people i spoke to in the field said no to tourniquet's (not all of them), and no to self administered antivenin.. that said they mostly had doctors with us who carried epi and such.
Definitely need to consult your employer about their H&S, but as you say, in africa... who's going to say boo if you die?
Well. Unless he's got a REALLY slow digestive tract!
If we went around believing people's *word* our prisons would be empty, wouldn't they?
As to carrying epipens, is epenephrine the correct general treatment for those envenomations? I'm not a medic, just someone who reads too much, but i seem to remember hearing that some envenomations you're safer with the likes of atropine than epeneprhine.
I've visited the himalayas, china, indonesia, and the philipines and most of the people i spoke to in the field said no to tourniquet's (not all of them), and no to self administered antivenin.. that said they mostly had doctors with us who carried epi and such.
Definitely need to consult your employer about their H&S, but as you say, in africa... who's going to say boo if you die?
I wonder if the same could be said for the houses of parliamentIf we went around believing people's *word* our prisons would be empty, wouldn't they?
Haha. Brilliant.
Inidentally, this has been a really interesting thread. I love medicine and toxicology.
AND herpatology.
I love snakes. Don't know a huge ammount about them, but i love the things.
Inidentally, this has been a really interesting thread. I love medicine and toxicology.
AND herpatology.
I love snakes. Don't know a huge ammount about them, but i love the things.
I would never deliberately kill any living creature, except for food.
The incident happened 25 years (ish) ago and was induced by a panic/self preservation reaction and was not a deliberate act, more an accident of two species occupying the same space - as deliberate as road kill!
No one saw me, I was not there, you cannot prove anything, I am a liar!
I ate the remains of the snake so that its life was not wasted and its death had some meaning -even if the act was not much of a consolation......
I would never advocate law breaking or killing thoughtlessly.
I was in another county, asleep, with witnesses who will swear to the fact, what is a Viper?
The incident happened 25 years (ish) ago and was induced by a panic/self preservation reaction and was not a deliberate act, more an accident of two species occupying the same space - as deliberate as road kill!
No one saw me, I was not there, you cannot prove anything, I am a liar!
I ate the remains of the snake so that its life was not wasted and its death had some meaning -even if the act was not much of a consolation......
I would never advocate law breaking or killing thoughtlessly.
I was in another county, asleep, with witnesses who will swear to the fact, what is a Viper?
In 94 I spent 14 weeks or so traveling across the deserts of Australia, via the old camel routes. The same place as Mr Mears was and then wilder and remoter...
When we were planning the trip it became very obvious that we could be several days away from the nearest phone let alone help. We decided that our snakebite action would have been...
induce bleeding
Attempt to pump out venom
Usual first aid mesaures...however if we were without doubt too far from help/or having a slim chance of recovery, we decided that the best course of action would be to take strong pain control and then drink a full bottle of whisky to ease our passing...so we carried with us a full bottle of hard stuff that we never touhed until the end of the trip.
And by the way...this was totally self supporting trip...Nobody new our route because we didn't have one, we just took a map and went, but well prepared. I wish I had that freedom now!
Grim but hell it was some thought and we needed a plan rightly or wrongly.
When we were planning the trip it became very obvious that we could be several days away from the nearest phone let alone help. We decided that our snakebite action would have been...
induce bleeding
Attempt to pump out venom
Usual first aid mesaures...however if we were without doubt too far from help/or having a slim chance of recovery, we decided that the best course of action would be to take strong pain control and then drink a full bottle of whisky to ease our passing...so we carried with us a full bottle of hard stuff that we never touhed until the end of the trip.
And by the way...this was totally self supporting trip...Nobody new our route because we didn't have one, we just took a map and went, but well prepared. I wish I had that freedom now!
Grim but hell it was some thought and we needed a plan rightly or wrongly.
H
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In all fairness I don't think John can be lambasted too heavily for his actions some 25 years ago and he did state that the killing of the snake was more of a panic reaction as opposed to willful destruction. If I am not much mistaken the Adder received protection following the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 so it is quite possible that at that time John may not have been aware of it's protected status but I am certain he is well aware of it now being somewhat longer in the tooth (and beard) and heightened public awareness given the passage of time
Silverback, I think you are ... erm ... a diplomat!
Do I win £5?!!
Not in a paid capacity but I am more than happy to carry the label! Not however happy enough to send you a fiver
H
He' s left the building
Guest
I've also been thinking about what taws6 originally said about his solitary crawling about the woods, does anyone else think he might be .. err ... I mean .. an Adder ... do you think he really means 'what should I do if I come face-to-face with another Adder???
Which then got me thinking what would an Adder do if it was bitten by another Adder???
I'm going to lie down ... and take my tablets ...
What a daft post
If taws6 was in fact an adder how would he use the keyboard with no fingers and eyes equipped to detect movement as opposed to text on a computer screen let alone the complications associated with using a mouse as opposed to eating it can you tell me why the aspivenom is not recomended in Oz? I would have though it was a good first aid if used quickly
H
He' s left the building
Guest
What a daft post
You're right and I will cease now, don't want him having a hisssssy-fit over it and he won't fan(g)k us for taking the mickey ...
(apologies in advance to taws6!)
Dano
I think its the same reason you are to never wash the snake bite area.
Because if you dont know what snake has bitten you they can take a swab to find out what venom it is but if you wash the site or use a aspivenin i think it removes any trace from the bite area.
I also think when you have been injected with something it is hard to get it back out of your blood stream.
I think its the same reason you are to never wash the snake bite area.
Because if you dont know what snake has bitten you they can take a swab to find out what venom it is but if you wash the site or use a aspivenin i think it removes any trace from the bite area.
I also think when you have been injected with something it is hard to get it back out of your blood stream.
Hi nicodiemus, The company H&S was half the reason i made the post (and hijacked the thread a little bit, sorry taws6) and the second is, as i learn from most of the people on this forum, to take some responsibility for myself and my own health and safety. There are a couple of H&S issues at work and it can be quite easy for the company to ignore, followed by, in this case, hope it will be all right. It has been very hard just to find out if the local doc has anti venom, how quick you need to administer it etc.... and in Africa your plan may well not work. So the posts from Stuart and the information from Sliverback (and the others) are very much appreciated as they cover the two reasons above (and at least give me some valid info when talking to the occupational health dept).
The talk of the bottle of whiskey reminds me of that bit in the book chickenhawk, where the local working in the field get bitten and sits down and waits to die!
The talk of the bottle of whiskey reminds me of that bit in the book chickenhawk, where the local working in the field get bitten and sits down and waits to die!
Wow, this thread really took off !
It has been very enlightening reading all the pros and cons of self medication for snake bites, and an interesting read at that. Thanks for the input from all those involved.
So what should your actions be to avoid being bitten in the first place? Obviously give snakes a wide berth when spotted, but I mean keep still / slowly back off / jump back ??
It has been very enlightening reading all the pros and cons of self medication for snake bites, and an interesting read at that. Thanks for the input from all those involved.
So what should your actions be to avoid being bitten in the first place? Obviously give snakes a wide berth when spotted, but I mean keep still / slowly back off / jump back ??
Combination of a lot of things I think.
I seem to remember (sorry not completely sure/sober)..
Most snakes have a bad short term memory... I you would stand still for more than 30 seconds they (APPEARANTLY ) seem to forget about you and go on with their business...
This "story" came with me from central Australia if my memory serves me right.... some snake center in Alice Springs...
Not sure about their heat seeking abilities....types of snakes etc.
I did try it out (NOT on purpose!!!) in Guatemala. Walking along a trail, my guide behind me and I almost stepped on this snake that was absorbing a bit of sun on the trail.
While standing like a karate kid with one leg in the air thinking of all I "knew" about snakes, where I was, what kind of snake it probably was, where to go to, what places the snake could go to, striking distances and a lot more.......
To be short... snake moved, I moved... both in opposite directions... away from each other... I was pretty sure this was NOT a fer de lance but a harmless species.. but still....
So.. if possible...give wide birth, else; stand still, think fast, act. And acting can be standing still, backing off... or jumping away/over... Just too many variables imvho...
Just my 2 cts...
Grtz Johan
I seem to remember (sorry not completely sure/sober)..
Most snakes have a bad short term memory... I you would stand still for more than 30 seconds they (APPEARANTLY ) seem to forget about you and go on with their business...
This "story" came with me from central Australia if my memory serves me right.... some snake center in Alice Springs...
Not sure about their heat seeking abilities....types of snakes etc.
I did try it out (NOT on purpose!!!) in Guatemala. Walking along a trail, my guide behind me and I almost stepped on this snake that was absorbing a bit of sun on the trail.
While standing like a karate kid with one leg in the air thinking of all I "knew" about snakes, where I was, what kind of snake it probably was, where to go to, what places the snake could go to, striking distances and a lot more.......
To be short... snake moved, I moved... both in opposite directions... away from each other... I was pretty sure this was NOT a fer de lance but a harmless species.. but still....
So.. if possible...give wide birth, else; stand still, think fast, act. And acting can be standing still, backing off... or jumping away/over... Just too many variables imvho...
Just my 2 cts...
Grtz Johan
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