snake bite anti venom?

[taws6]

Hi,

I have often been crawling along in the woods on my own, and come face to face with Adders and grass snakes. Now, I have never been biten, but have often wondered how I'd cope if I was bitten.
Anyone carry some sort of anti venom and/or extractor, and if so what type?
Having read some of the anti venom/extraction info it seems a bit of a doctors job, but is there anything I can do to help my chances incase the worst does happen??

 

[BorderReiver]

Don't worry too much.Grass snakes are not venomous.Adders are venomous but unless you are very small or have a heart defect the bite won't kill you.
In the UK you are never far from an A&E,even if you are out in the wild somewhere.

 

[nicodiemus]

You're lucky. I've not seen an adder and i've lived here all my life except 3 years.

 

[John Fenna]

I came across one Viperon the Pembrokeshire Coast Path one time - right between my legs as I stopped to take in the view!
Panic reaction had me stomp its head to pulp (sorry!) but waste not want not as they say....I skinned cleaned and cooked it - and ate it.
Skinning was quite difficult as I remember, gutting it I cannot realy recall (it was about 25 years ago dammit!) and I fried it a little at a time on a Gaz Globetrotter stove.
I may well have overcooked it but it was chewwy, boney and a bit like, yeah thats right, chicken!
The most Vipers I have ever seen was on Jura - they were basking on every other rock -or so it seemed at the time....

 

[EdS]

we get both at home - the grass snakes even bask in one of the apple trees!

 

[JohnC]

I used to work in a poisons unit in Scotland, we had someone about once a year with an adder bite. The time I looked after someone it was a hand bite, plenty of time to get to he hospital. Severe bruising and haemmorhagic rash. They had to immobilise their arm/hand for a week, they had anti tetanus shots, antibiotics as a precaution, but no antivenom. Most of our info suggested the antivenom had the potential to cause more reactions.
It should be noted the person told me they had had to provoke the snake (unintentionally) to cause it to bite, it would have preferred to get away...

 

[Prophecy]

Epi pens would also help with anaphalaptic shock I think, so maybe one or two of those could be carried.

 

[illumeo]

Anyone know much about the anti venom for black and green mambas? eg how quick you need it after you have been bitten?

 

[Stuart]

Anyone know much about the anti venom for black and green mambas? eg how quick you need it after you have been bitten?

if you dont mind me asking, why do specifically these snakes?

 

[illumeo]

Due to my job I some times end up spending time in sierra leone, the company i work for maybe a little cavalier with it's advice. As i understand these two snakes are the ones we are most likely to come into contact with.

 

[Silverback]

Blacks are larger, more venemous and more aggressive than Greens. If you haven't got the antivenom with you, bend over, place your head between your legs and kiss........you get the picture . I have a good friend who works in the veterinary unit at ZSL he opened a drawer in the reptile house one day and found a nice big cobra staring back at him We both belong to same Herpetology group and can be referred to as Snake Anoraks

 

[illumeo]

I believe the company thinks it is ok to call out the local doc, whether he has anti venom i don't know, i don't even know if there is a fridge to keep it in, or, get us by ferry or helicopter to the local hospital, it would be 20min by helicopter at best ! Do you have any info/sources i could quote when "talking" to the company about this?

Cheers

 

[Silverback]

I believe the company thinks it is ok to call out the local doc, whether he has anti venom i don't know, i don't even know if there is a fridge to keep it in, or, get us by ferry or helicopter to the local hospital, it would be 20min by helicopter at best ! Do you have any info/sources i could quote when "talking" to the company about this?

Cheers

I will make some enquiries and see if I can get you some official advice from one of the keepers at ZSL - I doubt if your company would argue with their recommendations

 

[illumeo]

That would be brilliant, thanks very much

 

[He' s left the building]

illumeo: Field treatment for snake-bite usually involves taking observations (temperature, pulse, blood-pressure, respiratory rate and monitoring of the bite-site for tissue damage) whilst evacuating asap to the nearest well-equipped medical facility.

Any symptoms can be treated accordingly depending on the situation, ie oxygen for depressed breathing, etc. Anti-venom should be given only after careful observation, if the casualty has not been envenomated (warning/dummy-strike from the snake) then the anti-venom may have contra-indications (side-effects) or may have been un-necessary.

Upon reaching a facility, staff there should (big assumption) be capable of further monitoring and investigations, debride damaged tissue, etc (your employer should have checked this as part of their mediplan, a question you should ask them!)

My suggestion is to ask some questions to your employers contracted medical provider (if they have one?!) noting especially your personal responsibilities regarding immediate first-aid reaction and evacuation procedures.

As suggested by Silverback, you could well be stumped if you did receive a good dose of venom and the first-aider would be limited to giving you pain-relief and oxygen while you were driven to the nearest hospital/clinic for their attention. Is there any chance you could do a dummy-run casualty evacuation right from site-of-incident to hospital trolley?

As for quoting anything, I would drop the phrases 'risk-management' and 'duty-of-care' into the conversation with your employer.

Sorry if any of that is quite vague and non-specific, hope it helps?!

Stay Safe!!!

 

[myheadsashed]

Black mambas are nicknamed the 15 step snake. If you get bitten you'll manage about 15 steps and your dead. They inject a massive amount of fast acting venom.

 

[He' s left the building]

Some practical info about the black mamba from this website: http://www.kruger2canyons.com/mamba.htm

Contrary to popular perception, Donald says the snake is not aggressive and will do anything in its power to head away from humans rather than attack.

If this is not possible and it feels threatened it will raise its front and head off the ground and flatten its hood to deter the perceived threat.

If still threatened it will bite in several quick strikes. The biggest danger for man is when he attempts to kill the Black Mamba. “It will defend itself to the maximum,” says Donald.

Black mamba venom is highly toxic. Two drops of venom can kill a person and a mamba can have up to 20 drops in its fangs.

The venom contains both neurotoxins and cardio toxins. The first affects the nervous system, while the latter attacks the heart.

The initial bite symptoms include slight swelling where bitten and/ or pain or a light burning sensation, the loss of control of the tongue and jaw and slurred speech, tunnel and blurred vision, drowsiness, paralysis of all muscle groups and mental confusion.

The bite is life-threatening if these symptoms appear within an hour of the bite. The respiratory system is especially affected.

Not all bites are fatal. Depending on where the snake bit and how much venom was injected, one could survive the bite – even without the use of antivenin.

However, it is critical that a person receives professional medical care a soon a possible, as a bite where the venom got directly into the bloodstream is usually fatal without intervention.

The sooner a person is treated after the bite, the better his or her chances of survival.

A Black Mamba antidote is administered where necessary, but some people may be allergic.

In some cases, under proper professional medical care, it is better to allow the human body to heal itself.



This is the one to be really afraid of: http://www.chilliworld.com/SP6.asp?p_id=72

 

[swagman]

The best thing to carry for a snake bite are two 100mm wide bandages.
The advise in oz is . if you are bitten on the ancle for instance cut the trouser leg
as fare up as posible. then start to rap the leg with the bandages from the bite site
as fare up as you can go and then from the bite site down to your toes.The bandages should be raped no tighter than if you were raping them for a sprain.
This will then slow the venom and give you a few more hours for help to arive.

Swagman.

 

[illumeo]

Thanks for the information guys. I think the problem may lie in proving that the contracted medical provider will do what they say they will! this is africa. Thanks for the first aid advice as well. The link makes interesting reading, I thought that they were aggressive (what do your mates at ZSL think Sliverback) but then i believed the stuff about camel spiders eating you while you slept, until i "Googled" them.

 

[Dano]

I carry an aspivenom with me when travelling, it is basically a pump you place over the puncture site, push the plunger down and it draws out some of what was injected in. it has several sized nozzles so can be used for snake bite as well as insect bites.

Incidentally about 20 years ago I was trekking in the US, we were trudging down a railroad in oppressive heat after 50 miles on the trail and a bloody great brown snake struck my boot, I had totally zoned out and was mesmerised by the sleepers in front of me, I must have almost trod on the thing as it was sunning itself, I think it was a non venomous species but it could easily have been a rattler and got me higher than my boot, I wouldn’t have been in too much trouble as we were only about 10 miles from the nearest phone but a couple of days earlier would have been a different story so it pay to be prepared and to pay attention to you surroundings

Somewhere I have some pictures of the thing, my mate was flicking pebbles at it so it would rear up for a better picture, I seem to remember thinking at the time it was unwise to vex a snake!