Ski Survival

[jimmeh]

Hi All,

I'm lucky enough to be off to Wyoming in Jan for a long ski trip, i'm yet to see anyone discuss survival in a ski situation. Whilst i'm waiting for the day i get stranded in the british woodland ... i think its much more likely i'll get stuck on the mountains in back country Jackson, Wyoming.

How do i adapt my survival kit for out there?

Should there be any extra considerations to my kit (aside from more warm layers + ideally an avalanche bag)..?

-JB

 

[Wayland]

I would say a snow shovel is an essential and avalanche beacons and snow probe too.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Plus training in how to deal with the terrain your putting your self in, and the equipment you take.

 

[udamiano]

When in that terrain I always take a few packs of those air activated heat pads, and a small bottle of Red dye (used to stain the snow, for signal..etc), a mozzie net, and a small collapsable water holder, and a packet of boiled sweets (these can be dissolved in hot water).
These are all in addition to the kit I normally take.
I spend about 3-4 weeks a year skiing in the Austrian, and French alps, and often go off-piste.
As Waylan suggests a avalanche beacon is a must, as well as a snow shovel.

I also take a satellite emergency beacon, especially if I'm off piste.

Southey said exactly my thoughts about getting the training as well

 

[mikeybear]

Even for on piste skiing I make sure all of my party carry a survival blanket even if you are going to be rescued quite quickly its better you don't freeze. Also we carry PMR radios for comms. If you loose sight of you friends it an effective method of making sure no one is stranded with a broken leg just out of site.
Cheers

MB

 

[hoppinmad]

Hi
Their is a article on the Grough website about the Scottish avalanche training site, which has just opened
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2011/11/09/scottish-avalanche-training-site-is-a-world-first
Regards
Stu

 

[Badger74]

Udamiano, whats the mozi net for in snow? Genuine question or am i missing the obvious?

 

[born2roam]

Udamiano, whats the mozi net for in snow? Genuine question or am i missing the obvious?

You can use the mozzie net for a drip feeder water collector thingymagit...

Put snow in mozzie net, hang on an angled pole near a fire, water drops fall off into a receptacle that doesn't need to be 'fire proof'. Some do it without the mozzy net, pack the snow (hard) on a stick. Iirc some call it a Finnish marshmellow.

Mears does it in one of the older episodes in Sweden. Can't recall the exact title by heart....

Also usable for collecting other small stuff...

Grtz Johan

 

[johnboy]

Hi All,I'm lucky enough to be off to Wyoming in Jan for a long ski trip, i'm yet to see anyone discuss survival in a ski situation. Whilst i'm waiting for the day i get stranded in the british woodland ... i think its much more likely i'll get stuck on the mountains in back country Jackson, Wyoming.How do i adapt my survival kit for out there? Should there be any extra considerations to my kit (aside from more warm layers + ideally an avalanche bag)..?-JB

I suppose what terrain you're heading into depends on what you'll need..

If I was skiing off piste then I'd have normal winter 'survival kit' with me warm layers, food, small head torch, survival bag etc....

In addition, If you're going off piste into the back country away from a ski patrolled area then you'll need the full set of avalanche kit...

As Wayland mentions...Beacon + spare batteries

A decent shovelProbes and the training in how to use it and effect avalanche rescue...

Also some skills in avalanche avoidence and snow pack assessment (hastie pits etc) and the ability to interpret the weather...Plus the kit to navigate with if your're really heading into the wop wops....


Oh and a mossie net..... ;-)


Ps: Everyone needs a beacon and a shovel in the party...

 

[Badger74]

Thanks for the answer B2R, never knew that!

 

[udamiano]

Hi Badger,

Exactly as B2R said.


Day

 

[jimmeh]

Hm, some good tips!

I'll be on trails all the time, the resort is reknowned for being quite difficult so i dont think i'll need any more of a challenge. Avalanche beacon sounds like a good plan, but i can't afford it at £200+

I'll be looking at things like colouring/dye and carrying some form of heat/water generation. I'm wondering if one of the peanut lighters/firesteel is worth having. Survival bag+foil blanket, some lighting, whisky and a long lasting food source (maybe jerky or something?!) seems like a good start.

I think a radio set is a great plan, there's 6 of us and no doubt we'll split up at some point. If anyone has any experience of any they've used in mountain terrain then i'd be open to suggestions, but i don't have £500 spare for two radios

Cheers guys! time to watch some snow/winter survival proggies to jog my mind and inspire some thought!

 

[ged]

Ditch the whisky. Take a reel of dayglo orange thread instead.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Will you be hiring a guide? have you ANY avalanche area training at all? have you thought about hiring the kit you need? I think you should think a little more seriously about this than watching some programmes

 

[johnboy]

Hm, some good tips! I'll be on trails all the time, the resort is reknowned for being quite difficult so i dont think i'll need any more of a challenge. Avalanche beacon sounds like a good plan, but i can't afford it at £200+I'll be looking at things like colouring/dye and carrying some form of heat/water generation. I'm wondering if one of the peanut lighters/firesteel is worth having. Survival bag+foil blanket, some lighting, whisky and a long lasting food source (maybe jerky or something?!) seems like a good start. I think a radio set is a great plan, there's 6 of us and no doubt we'll split up at some point. If anyone has any experience of any they've used in mountain terrain then i'd be open to suggestions, but i don't have £500 spare for two radios Cheers guys! time to watch some snow/winter survival proggies to jog my mind and inspire some thought!

You could do the following....

1. Watch all of the Ray Mears, BG, Dual Survival and Survivor man episodes you can get your hands on then assemble the perfect TV survival expert snow survival kit... It would be something along the lines of a pair of skis you had made from a dead standing pine tree with some bindings you can use barefoot.. A flask of pine needle tea and a survival bag made from a dead chamois carcass, with a video camera so you can film yourself....


2. Ski well inside the patrolled zone, get weather updates, visit the ski patrol HQ and find out about trail conditions heed the ski patrol advice. Hire a guide and beacon and shovel / probe if venturing off trail....



Radio wise... I've used a pair of cheap Motorola PRS UHF transceivers with a lot of success with groups on snowy mountains.. They cost less that 100gbp. There are heaps of cheap Chinese 'walkie talkies' on eBay or the like...


You just need to understand the fundamental limitiations of that type of comms kit and stay off of any of the ski patrol or mountain management channels...

 

[jimmeh]

heh.

Southey: without being there and doing a trial run holiday, its hard to imagine the potential hazards. Watching some TV (whilst im not going to be building snow shoes from reeds..) does inspire thought and can remind you of what you need. My memory isn't great, and seeing someone else do things does make you think about what to remember to take.

I'm not going to be wondering off in to the mountains, i'm looking for some tips on how to adapt my normal outdoor gear to be more prepared in a ski situation.

Hiring the beacon isn't a bad idea - hadn't thought of that.

A guide is entirely possible, i think the lodge we're in has in-house experts available.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i think looking for avalanche training may be a bit much for a ski trip. It is something i'd like to do - i anticipate i'll be skiing much more in the coming years, and consequently becoming more brave with what i do and where i go. I have both summer and winter mountaineering experience and training (military), i can make a mean snowball. But watching stuff and reading around i think is a great first step for picking up knowledge where an expert course in avalanche specific survival isn't a straight forward option.

I'm not entirely a novice here, maybe that came across slightly wrong - but i'd love to hear about how others here have survived, lived, crafted their way around an arctic environment.

I expect 99% of ski-holiday'ers don't even consider survival and outdoor craft when going away with their spangly new skis. I'd like to think sparking this debate is the first step to "taking it seriously"

Thanks for the input

 

[johnboy]

So you're not going back country skiing you're just off on a regular ski holiday skiing on piste??

 

[udamiano]

Jimmeh,

Its my experience, that the equipment that you haven't got or can't afford, can be hired at location. you right the cost of a beacon is very expensive, but if you are going to do this a lot in the future, then It is an expense worth making. You can buy commercial water/snow dye packs, But really I've tried them and on snow a bottle of food colouring produces an equal effect (red I found to be particularly good)
The cost of a guide, can of course be split between the members of your group, and a good guide can enhance your trip with local knowledge and information, but please check their credentials before you go. and book in advance.
While pictures of St Bernard with barrels of brandy, to revive the stricken make an excellent picture I would advise against taking booze, unless of course this is in the warm afterward, as it speeds up dehydration in the body. Make sure you have a good breakfast in the morning, something that will release energy slowly over the day (porridge is a good one! and all those Scots can't be wrong ). As I said in my earlier post, Boiled sweets are a good emergency food, as they can be dissolved in hot water or tea and provide a good source of instant energy that only sugar can.
Again if you are going way off piste then I would really advise hiring an emergency sat beacon. which at the touch of a button will send your co-ordinates to the nearest emergency outpost via a monitored centre, (a really good avalanche beacon on its own is useless if there is nobody around to dig you out!!). Expensive to buy but reasonable to hire, and have had really good reviews in Canada and America, (the one I use is called SPOT).
Another piece of emergency equipment I take is a strobe light (these can be bought quite cheaply off evil bay) In a chopper at 50M in the mountains everything looks the same, and in the dark!!! well ......
The High Mountains are some of the most beautiful places on earth, and really worth the trip. Most of all my advice is to use your common sense, before going through a gorge assess the slopes and any overhanging snow, don't take too long to pass through and do so one at a time, so if anything does go wrong, your mates can dig you out.
Most of all Enough yourself and have a wonderful time

Day