Shell jacket: heat insulating or not?

[Lasse]

What kind of shell jacket do you wear (if any) ?
A thin layer that only blocks the wind and is waterproof(/resistant) or a heavy, warm jacket to keep you nice and toasty?

Are there any reasons why you wouldn't like to wear a thin outer garment with fe wool layers underneath depending on temperature?

Asking because I don't really see the use of those heavy jackets, unless in extreme conditions where you need all heat you can get. Must be some good reason to wear them though, right?
Following the layer principle I'd wear a thin base-layer (fe merino), an insulating layer with weight depending on temperature (fe thick or thin wool or fleece) and a light outer jacket (fe G1000 or ventile or eVent or gore-tex) to protect me from the wind and rain. The less insulating (and the more "breathing") the outer layer, the more versatile and usable the system becomes, no?

Thanks in advance!
Lasse

 

[Kerne]

I go for the lots of thin layer approach. I wear a thin waterproof (at the moment a cheap Marmot but I've been showing SWMBO pictures of the Rab Bergen jacket what with Christmas coming...) I prefer to wear several layers of wooly stuff underneath. I find a thick waterproof gets far too hot in summer or when you're working hard and, unless you can run to a different jacket for each season, a thin, light waterproof can serve you all year round so long as you choose you other layers judiciously.

 

[big_swede]

A shell jacket is per definition NOT insulated. That is the whole idea, to combine a weather proof shell with insulating layers according to weather and activity.

Heavier parkas and down jackets and so on is usually for more stationary activities, or work wear (e.g. the woolrich and canada goose parkas). There are always exceptions, like the down coveralls sometimes used in high altitude climbing. But it's still not a shell.

Why isn't there any options for water proof shells? I shift the outer layer according to season, but I still don't wear any insulated shells during winter.

 

[Lasse]

A shell jacket is per definition NOT insulated. That is the whole idea, to combine a weather proof shell with insulating layers according to weather and activity.

My thoughts exactly, but when I go to an outdoor shop this time of the year (or look at fe Fjällräven's catalogue of this season) most jackets are quite insulated despite everyone always talking about the layer principle... Really annoys me because I'm not interested in one of those for active outdoor activities, and I wouldn't recommend them for most situations either...

Why isn't there any options for water proof shells? I shift the outer layer according to season, but I still don't wear any insulated shells during winter.

Since they're not insulating, I'd put those together with the other thin outer layers. Personally I wear a goretex jacket as thin outer layer.

 

[Bodge]

I bought a berghaus whiteheat about 15 years ago. I cant wear the darn thing as it's too warm for me. I wore it in Lapland and it was fine at -18 on snow mobiles but It only gets worn once in a blue moon when it's really really cold.
I go for layers now as you can control your temp easier I think.

 

[stooboy]

I go for layers now as you can control your temp easier I think.

I agree with that. i fancy a goose down body warmer to compliment my layers this year . currently my outer is a ex army poncho or ex army goretex jacket.

Stoo.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I own a Goretex/Thinsulate winter coat, bought in the US that definitely counts as warm. In fact, for nearly all of the last two years it is too warm for any of the weather we have had in the UK!

While I would agree that for active outdoor use the layer system is the most versatile by far, there are times when having an insulated coat is useful, and I think that these are the conditions experienced by the greater majority of people these days, assuming the weather gets chilly.

The single insulated coat is great if you are moving from cold outdoors to well heated indoors, and back again. Think wandering around town shopping, sitting in a heated car, popping in and out of heated challets or nipping into a pup or restaurant on the way home. It is much easier to dress for the heated indoors, then throw on a single garment for going out than it is to be constantly adding and removing layers. It is a lot easier to carry a single bulky coat than a bundle of pull-overs.

The other thing that I think might have some bearing is that for those of us in the UK, it rarely gets really cold. A lot of people used inuslated coats in the New York winters of my childhood. They might not have been the "best" from a control point of view, but they did the job well enough to be perenially popular.

 

[rik_uk3]

Around camp I wear a down jacket, gortex anorak as well if its raining and cold

 

[Tiley]

It's ventile for me most of the time but when it gets really gnarly or I'm out on the hills, I strap on the Paramo.

Goretex? Event? Pah! Been there (for over twenty years...) and done them. They're really not all they're cracked up to be but I do admire the marketing. It has persuaded millions of folk to splash their cash.

 

[John Fenna]

It's ventile for me most of the time ...Goretex? Event? Pah! Been there (for over twenty years...) and done them. They're really not all they're cracked up to be but I do admire the marketing. It has persuaded millions of folk to splash their cash.

I concur!
But I still use Gore for waterproofs if I am not near a fire/dont have to pay for it...

 

[Dougster]

I have had to cancel my Ventile order sadly, but I have far too many jackets anyway.

On top of Ben Macdui, in February, eVent was superb, breathable enough in the lee of the hill with a big pack going up hill and then hard enough shell to keep out the nasty (and I mean nasty).

To be honest, unless around the fire, I wear softshell, love them to bits, walking, shooting or around town. From what I've heard all day on a wet hill with a ventile will not make one a happy bunny. Wet in the woods near the fire and it's fine.

Horses for courses, I can never make up my mind which aspect of being outdoors I love the most, so I have a jacket for almost all eventualities.....

 

[StJon]

Same as others, different jackets for different jobs. Wool for insulation and spark protection plus warm when wet. Event shell as layer system in the rain. Buffalo for cold but active. Insulated tweed for cold inactive. But have to admit sometimes I get it wrong...; )

 

[BorderReiver]

Like the rest of you I want a waterproof, windproof outer garment to protect my thermal insulating layers.

I find it strange that a lot of outdoor clothing firms make a selling point of providing really good outer jackets with a zip to allow you to zip in a fleece layer.

It just seems a pointless, more expensive, thing to do.

 

[Kerne]

BorderReiver said:

I find it strange that a lot of outdoor clothing firms make a selling point of providing really good outer jackets with a zip to allow you to zip in a fleece layer.

I agree. I think Berghaus started this years ago with their IA range and everyone else seemed to jump on the bandwagon. Of course, it does tie you in to buying their fleeces, so from a marketing point of view you can see their point.

 

[Dougster]

I agree. I think Berghaus started this years ago with their IA range and everyone else seemed to jump on the bandwagon. Of course, it does tie you in to buying their fleeces, so from a marketing point of view you can see their point.

I have a Keela for shooting and zip in my Lowe jacket, means that I have the big thing for being out but can take it all off in one go. MOST of em take most fleecs and I find it quite handy at times.

 

[Frogy]

A shell jacket is per definition NOT insulated.

But it does insulate! If you dont believe me go stand outside for 10 mins with no shirt on, then put just your shell on (no shirt)

As is usual a lot of people run down Goretex in these discussions. Most people don't need Goretex. They generally are not out in really bad weather while exercising vigorously, that doesnt mean that goretex doesn't work, just that something different may be more suitable for their particular use. I spent 15 winters working in the alps and the rockies and there are situations when nothing else comes close. Would I spend the money on it for canoeing and camping in the UK? Probably not, but that doesn't mean its useless.

 

[h2o]

I went to an outdoors shop yesterday and was stunned at the price of jackets!!Like i said to my wife, If they need a £175 to feel safe outdoors maybe they should stay at home!!!

 

[Glosfisher]

Waterproof shell jackets DO insulate because they are windproof and therefore minimise windchill. They also create a warm layer of air around you further insulating you.

Their breathability, however, is another issue. Bear in mind that many of these breathable membranes were originally aimed at the US market where much of the country enjoys (and I mean enjoy) low humidity (say 25-50%). Indeed these fabrics work best in conditions where humidity is lower on the outside of the membrane. Now transfer this to dear old Blightly where humidity is regularly between 75 and 90% and you can see why they don't perform to their optimum. That said, several of my students have jackets with eVent linings and they really do seem to work even in "full British conditions". I was out last weekend with a group in driving rain and a WCF of -2 trundling around some Iron Age sites and the inside of my Gore-Tex XCR jacket was decidedly damp to the touch. However, because I was wearing a series of thin synthetic layers overtopped by a pile fleece jacket I did not get cold.

£175 may seem a lot to spend on a jacket but I spent a similar amount on a Lowe mountain jacket 10 years ago and it is still going strong. It's got a Ceramic TriplePoint lining which I always considered superior to Goretex for breathability but sadly only Columbia now use it though under a different name. As someone who spends a lot of time leading groups of children and adults in often very difficult weather conditions on top of having a job where I spend the worst months of the winter outdoors in remote and bleak places I firmly believe that people should use the most expensive equipment they can afford. Yes, there's an element of paying for the name and the huge licensing fees Gore and others charge manufacturers but the cost also reflects the amount of time, effort and quality of construction that has gone into that jacket, a garment that stands a much smaller chance of letting you down when things go pear-shaped and your life depends on it.

Remember: "There's no such thing as inclement weather only inadequate clothing"

 

[Nonsuch]

The Paramo concept of an overlayering insulated smock that goes over your normal water/windproof for when you have stopped is quite a good one. I have their Torres oversmock which goes over the Velez Adventure smock.

 

[Glosfisher]

I agree; in fact I was only looking at the system today and thinking how sensible it is. My only reservation about Paramo is how tough their garments are as I spend a lot of time grovelling through ancient woodland and other forms of temperate jungle by way of a job