Sheath Design question

[British Red]

Given that a lot of us do carry a field sharpening stone, I'd be intrigued to know what the "ideal" carry method for that stoe would be:

1)In a pouch integral to the knife sheath?
2) In a separate belt / pocket pouch?
3) In a Bergan / trouser pocket loose?

Red

 

[sal.]

Hi Red,

Good questions?

Any asnwers?

sal

 

[Stuart]

in my shirt pocket

 

[Andy]

I don't like to carry other stuff with my knife, I like the sheath to be simple looks and not over the top for a little walk when you don't need your fero rod, shapening stone etc.
It tends to end up in a zipped pocket on my person instead

 

[British Red]

Sal,

its about 50 / 50 at the moment for with or without. Tiffers and I are mailing back and forth each day on the design. The current plan is a straight ambi sheath (deep friction fit) with a removable "dangler" loop extension for low carry below the bergan belt.

There will be an optional removable firesteel loop and stone pouch (which can be adapted for left or right carry, used as pocket carry or on one design even attached to a PSK etc.).

We have a couple of donor knives to use as forms and Tiffers (who lets face it is the brains of the outfit) is planning to make up a couple of samples for you to have a look at (there are some design variations possible)

I think we should offer the onboard as an option but preserve the possibility of clean lines or neck carry

We both have a knife needing a sheath so it gives us the opportunity to try out some design choices - I mean this little feller needs a nice sheath - treat it well we send it over

Red

 

[happy camper]

Hi Sal,
i tend to think my preference for carrying will really depend on the type and size of sharpening method or system, and that will depend on the grind of the knife, but for what it's worth here's my thoughts..

1) A pouch integral to the knife sheath would be good as long as it's secure and isn't clumsy. It begs the question of what size pouch, will it be somehow "universal" and if not, for which sharpening stone or which method?
I can see only really imagine an integral pouch working for me if the package also comes with an excellent method of sharpening, one that is best suited to the grind and that can be used to both restore and maintain the edge. Spyderco have an excellent reputation for their sharpening products so i'm sure that would be more than possible, if a knife came with a field sharpening system included, one ideally suited to the knife and grind, as long as it wasn't prohibitively expensive it could be ideal.
2) A seperate pouch would also be good, might be a good balance if it can be readily attached to the sheath or worn on the belt , round the neck on a cord, tucked in a pocket etc.
Might even be nice on a sheath or seperate pouch to include a flat surface, maybe even removeable/replaceable sacraficial strip of leather that could serve as a strop.
Seperate pouch would also mean if the user prefers another method of sharpening, they dont have to carry an extraneous piece of kit or empty pouch (as they would if it was integral).
I quite like the idea of a versatile, modular set-up that can be changed or expand, depending on preference and need, . It leaves room for kit to develop and change. It can also mean you don't have to shell out for everything at once if you can't afford all the bells and whisles. ( pouches aregood as long as i'm not going out looking too much like inspector gadget or Batman...well...maybe batman's ok...if his outfit comes in muted colours )

 

[happy camper]

Hi British Red,
i was typing my last ramble when you posted so i missed that, i'm finding it hard to follow all the different threads here and on bb, is there a thread or place where sheath design ideas are being discussed seperately?

 

[British Red]

Hi HC,

Err no which is poor thread etiquette on my part! I kind of got interested in this in "perfect bushcraft knife" thread and posted a few piccs of designs etc. that Tiffers made for me and homed in on this one since it addressed one of the thorny points (i.e. do people want to carry their stones integrally or not)

I have a new knife that needs a sheath so its fun to play around, get some more of Tiffers scrummy work and try to help sal out as well.

A separate thread on sheaths might be fun - would you come and play if I start one?

Red

 

[C_Claycomb]

I think that a separate sheath thread would be better. It would make it easier for people to find and participate.

If you want, the sheath related stuff can be split out and moved to one location, if you like?

On the sharpener thing, I think that the pouches on the sheath are a waste of time. Apart from impacting how you can carry the sheath, making it bulky etc, the range of sizes and shapes of manufactured sharpeners means that whatever shape you make the pouch it won't suit enough people to make the extra effort worth while.

I carry a full size DMT folding hone, a small DMT in another grit, and a mini strop. I can also carry Spyderco ceramic slip stones. That's just what I have and use most often. None are really a good size or shape for sheath carry.

 

[British Red]

Chris,

That'd be fantastic if you could split them out - thanks. As a matter of interest, where do you stand on firesteel loops?

Red

 

[C_Claycomb]

I haven't ever had one on a sheath. I often wish that I didn't have to rumage in my tinder pouch for my firesteel. I just haven't made many "Bushcraft" sheaths that I like. I really don't like the normal belt carry. I think that if I had a fire steel loop, I would want it permanently attached, not a removeable one since I can't see how that could be made without being more bulky than an integral loop.

THREAD SPLIT

 

[Nemisis]

I've a question thats been puzzling me. While I can see the advantage and convinience of a fire steel hoop how do you go about retaining the fire steel as it wears away over time through use? By its very nature of design its diameter shrinks with use making a simple hoop useless before the steels used up.
Dave.

 

[British Red]

And therin lies one of the problems Dave,

I have toyed with putting a sprung loaded lever inside the loop to aid retention but I think thats over engineering!

So, I'd like to "punt out" this thought for people to think about / shoot down.

Given there are a variety of views on the clean lines of a sheath, advisability of carrying a firesteel in a loop (for retention reasons, weather exposure etc.), but given we do all carry them, how about a "companion set" as an optional extra?

Imagine if you will a (small) belt pouch. The interior would be divided into 3 sections

1) would be a firesteel loop on the inside
2) would be slot (1/4" wide or so) into which one could put a sharpening stone
3) Would be a wider pouch section that could accomodate some tinder or a compass etc.

I would see such a pouch being no larger than a packet of cigarettes but made in a matching material to the knife sheath and covered with a flap. This should

a) Be sold as an option so that those who don't want it don't pay
b) Stop your firesteel being exposed to the elements
c) Stop your firesteel falling out as it wears down
d) Give you somewhere to keep you sharpening stone
e) Mean you only need one such pouch even if you have several knives

Any thoughts?

Red

 

[spamel]

Like the idea, but why not make a cigarette pack sized pouch without the sections? Basically, a possibles pouch! Some times I take my Ferro Steel/whatever you want to call it, but sometimes I go with the traditional flint and steel type, as sold by Jason1. If there were sections in there, it's like being told what you must carry, and people already have sharpening stones that come in various sizes, how will you accomodate these? I'm not trying to dismiss your idea, I like pouches (!) but I like to be able to decide what I can put into them and where.

I hope I haven't come across badly, sometimes the written word can 'sound' a bit harsh!!

 

[leon-1]

That's not a bad idea Red. I make sheaths with firesteel loops on them as it is convenient as far as carrying is concerned. As the steel wares down I have a tendency to "pack" the loop out a little you can do this using evo-stick and thin layers of plastic (not ideal, but it works).

Ideally I would not have the firesteel outside, but at the same time if it is going to sit on or in a pouch then it would have to be on long loops or a dangler so that it was out of the way of my waist belt for my pack.

Keep the sheath simple, dangler with the option to make it neck carry built in. A second pouch for the rest of it is as good an idea as any.

 

[Nemisis]

While I like the removable pouch idea i'd keep it to firesteel and sharpener,directly knife related. Tinder etc you can create so long as you have the knife. Regarding the firesteel hoop what about sewing in a split rubber washer or plug that would adapt itselfe to the changing size?
Dave.

 

[spamel]

I have seen many people use a small loop off of the fire steel that they pass over the bottom of the steel where it protrudes from the bottom of the holder, effectively holding it in place. There are many pictures on the site of people doing this.

 

[British Red]

So, a pouch is okay but not too proscriptive. How about a small pouch (large enough to take say a DC4, combi ceramic etc.) with just an internal firesteel loop? You could also use this for a space pen, bookies pencil etc. This pouch could have the same type of "double dangler" or "scandy swivel" type loops so it could be worn high or low. Not really a true possibles pouch but more a "knife accesory" pouch. I'm thinking more "pack of playing cards" size now....would that work for people (as an option)?

Red

 

[sal.]

Good stuff,

Red & Tiffers :You_Rock_

We've penned a simple design fora knife so we can test the 52100 but no finals on the knife yet as we're waiting on some outside designs before we make our final decisions.

As Red mentioned, what about the possibility of a fire starter and shapener sheath that is separate from the knife sheath?

sal

 

[spamel]

Should work good, even if folk just wish to put a normal sized bic lighter in, then they can. I was thinking a loop inside made from elastic so that if you don't want to use it it just pings up against the side of the leather, but it would probably end up a bit tacky looking and elastic does lose its elasticity after a while! I think the leather loop is the only way.