Seat belt cutters - legality?

[slowworm]

Does anyone know what the legality of having a seat belt cutter on your keys is? I'm talking about the things that have a slit and at the base there's a sharp edge, so you can cut a belt in an accident but not accidentally cut yourself!

I have one and it's suggested I keep it on my keys but I'm wondering if I then go to the pub or shops it there's any chance at all someone may regard the item as a fixed blade knife?

It's not something I'm worried about just an idle thought.

 

[Bucephalas]

No issues with that. You can also carry a safety knife.

 

[British Red]

Technically - its a fixed blade.

If someone tried to prosecute me for having one I'd plead "good reason" and take it to court. It can't possibly be used as an offensive weapon after all.

 

[dwardo]

I think a judge or policeman would have a hard time proving its an offensive weapon.

 

[ammo]

The problem is the police don't prove nothing. It's the C.P.S who have the burden of proof, to prosecute. It's the over zealous policeman, who does have the power of arrest, who merely presents you to court. I'll stick to my legit folder.

I think a judge or policeman would have a hard time proving its an offensive weapon.

 

[dwardo]

The problem is the police don't prove nothing. It's the C.P.S who have the burden of proof, to prosecute. It's the over zealous policeman, who does have the power of arrest, who merely presents you to court. I'll stick to my legit folder.

You would have a hard time if you were caught with your legit folder in a pub on a Saturday night.
Its just common sense where you carry anything sharp. If I remember I have a sub 3inch folder on me when going for a pub lunch after walking the dog or with the family I dont go running out of he pub in a panic. If I think on which I usually do I just leave it in the car.
If I know I am going out for the evening for a meal and a few beers I leave anything sharp at home. No reason you would need it anyway. Most good pubs and restaurants provide sharp knives to eat with

Thinking about it a pencil sharpener is a fixed blade and about as dangerous.

 

[ammo]

I use one for work, Saturday night in the pub, didn't even cross my mind.

You would have a hard time if you were caught with your legit folder in a pub on a Saturday night.
Its just common sense where you carry anything sharp. If I remember I have a sub 3inch folder on me when going for a pub lunch after walking the dog or with the family I dont go running out of he pub in a panic. If I think on which I usually do I just leave it in the car.
If I know I am going out for the evening for a meal and a few beers I leave anything sharp at home. No reason you would need it anyway. Most good pubs and restaurants provide sharp knives to eat with

 

[redbranchwarrior]

IMO you'd be fine mate. It could only be considered an off weap if you had modified it or intended to hurt someone with it( in which case the blade is irrelevant!)and wouldn't be considered a pointed or bladed article under the criminal justice act....

 

[789987]

You would have a hard time if you were caught with your legit folder in a pub on a Saturday night.
Its just common sense where you carry anything sharp. If I remember I have a sub 3inch folder on me when going for a pub lunch after walking the dog or with the family I dont go running out of he pub in a panic. If I think on which I usually do I just leave it in the car.
If I know I am going out for the evening for a meal and a few beers I leave anything sharp at home. No reason you would need it anyway. Most good pubs and restaurants provide sharp knives to eat with

Thinking about it a pencil sharpener is a fixed blade and about as dangerous.

why? if something is legal to carry - sub whatever size non locking blade - why should it matter if you're in a pub? something that small is usually clipped on with your keys and forgotten about. strikes to me as paranoia and feeling unnecessarily guilty about something thats totally legal.

 

[789987]

oh and as for the seatbelt cutter thing - there is no way you would get anywhere near a court case with it. the very fact you're concerned enough to ask demonstrates the sort of individual you are - i.e. not the sort of individual that the police are going to suspect of trying to injure someone with 3mm of exposed blade.

 

[SJStuart]

It's a seat belt cutter... that'd be like making a house key illegal!

 

[dwardo]

why? if something is legal to carry - sub whatever size non locking blade - why should it matter if you're in a pub? something that small is usually clipped on with your keys and forgotten about. strikes to me as paranoia and feeling unnecessarily guilty about something thats totally legal.

I do get your point honestly. But in this quote you state the law.

oh and as for the seatbelt cutter thing - there is no way you would get anywhere near a court case with it. the very fact you're concerned enough to ask demonstrates the sort of individual you are - i.e. not the sort of individual that the police are going to suspect of trying to injure someone with 3mm of exposed blade.

And in this one you state your interpretation of the law. A fixed blade is a fixed blade so what good reason do you have for carrying it outside of your car? Devils advocate but you get my point.

My point is its all down to circumstance. Whilst a none fixed sub three inch folder is not subject to the laws that you need good reason to carry it, why on earth would you need it in a pub or nightclub? The same reason a large metal bar is not considered a weapon it its own right but why would you need one in the above circumstances? The same again also goes for a fixed blade knife or a locker, right time right place.

I am not trying to back the anti knife here as I carry one my self more often than I do not. But there is a time and place.

 

[SJStuart]

These (ridiculously stupid) blade laws aren't so cut and dry (no pun intended). There are exceptions made such as whether it is used as part of your trade.
I'd imagine a particularly bored jackboot with nothing better to do (and absolutely zero understanding of the law, like most of them) would try to have you prosecuted for carrying this on your keys. They'd try to argue that it belongs in your vehicle, then argue that it must be kept in the boot rather than the glovebox... because they lack the intelligence necessary to recognize that this tool is of no use to you in the boot of the very vehicle whose seatbelt prevents you from accessing it.

A sane prosecutor (a beat I've yet to meet) would laugh at this and not even bother pressing ahead with it.

The anti-knife laws actually render themselves unenforceable in any legitimate way by defining a knife as a "weapon", which it is not. A knife is a tool, and a weapon is anything used to inflict harm on others... ergo these knife laws are invalid. Last I looked, they haven't illegalized glass bottles despite the fact that they can instantly be turned into a sharp weapon. They haven't illegalized pens, despite the fact that you could very easily stab someone in the eye and kill them with one. Why? Because a pen is a tool... and so is a knife!

I think it's obvious at this point that I have zero respect for what are hilariously stupid laws.

Carry it... and if the fascists prosecute, drag it through the courts. Drag it through the press, and let everyone laugh at them. Then sue the lot of them for the inconvenience of it all. Seat belt cutters, after all, are not illegal!

 

[SJStuart]

Should also add to that by pointing out that the knife "laws" allow you to carry a knife for fishing, they also allow you to carry a knife for camping. By that same deduction of logic (despite the inherent lack of logic in defining a knife as a "weapon" in the first place) you are legitimized in carrying a belt cutter if you're operating a vehicle with belts.

 

[redbranchwarrior]

I do get your point honestly. But in this quote you state the law.



And in this one you state your interpretation of the law. A fixed blade is a fixed blade so what good reason do you have for carrying it outside of your car? Devils advocate but you get my point.

My point is its all down to circumstance. Whilst a none fixed sub three inch folder is not subject to the laws that you need good reason to carry it, why on earth would you need it in a pub or nightclub? The same reason a large metal bar is not considered a weapon it its own right but why would you need one in the above circumstances? The same again also goes for a fixed blade knife or a locker, right time right place.

I am not trying to back the anti knife here as I carry one my self more often than I do not. But there is a time and place.

Dwardo what law are you referring to specifically?

It is a matter of context surely? If i had reason to search someone in a pub and found they had a sub 3" blade on them i would certainly ask a few questions, but barring them saying something really stupid I would have no more grounds to do anything about it (not that i would necessarily want to) than i would if i found a torch, lighter or set of keys.....on the other hand if i found someone in a pub with a large metal bar on their person they would have a much harder time explaining why they have it...as we all know a knife is a utilitarian tool, a metal bar less so.

I generally carry a UKPK on my person, the only time i would consider ditching it would be at an airport or if i was going somewhere that had a set policy on searching/entry (nightclubs etc), but at my age that is a thing of the past...

 

[BearInTheWoods]

I vaguely recall a police blitz on 'rescue tools' in one city (Poss. Manchester), those things with a seatbelt cutter combined with a glass-hammer with a pointy bit at the heavy end. Apparently the criminal fraternity had cottoned on to the unintended possibilities of a pointy hammer and were carrying them in their cars as weapons, thinking they could argue it was a safety device.

 

[redbranchwarrior]

Should also add to that by pointing out that the knife "laws" allow you to carry a knife for fishing, they also allow you to carry a knife for camping. By that same deduction of logic (despite the inherent lack of logic in defining a knife as a "weapon" in the first place) you are legitimized in carrying a belt cutter if you're operating a vehicle with belts.

As far as i am aware the only knives that are classed as weapons under british law are those designed specifically for combat; bayonets, swords etc under the prevention of crime act. Could you point out what legislation you are referring to?

 

[redbranchwarrior]

I vaguely recall a police blitz on 'rescue tools' in one city (Poss. Manchester), those things with a seatbelt cutter combined with a glass-hammer with a pointy bit at the heavy end. Apparently the criminal fraternity had cottoned on to the unintended possibilities of a pointy hammer and were carrying them in their cars as weapons, thinking they could argue it was a safety device.

They are also frequently used by car thieves....along with spark plugs....

 

[SJStuart]

I vaguely recall a police blitz on 'rescue tools' in one city (Poss. Manchester), those things with a seatbelt cutter combined with a glass-hammer with a pointy bit at the heavy end. Apparently the criminal fraternity had cottoned on to the unintended possibilities of a pointy hammer and were carrying them in their cars as weapons, thinking they could argue it was a safety device.

I carry a stainless steel Parker pen in my pocket as a writing device. Doesn't mean I couldn't inflict harm with it if that were my intent (to clarify: it wouldn't be my weapon of choice... I'm merely pointing out the stupidity of these laws)

 

[BearInTheWoods]

I carry a stainless steel Parker pen in my pocket as a writing device. Doesn't mean I couldn't inflict harm with it if that were my intent (to clarify: it wouldn't be my weapon of choice... I'm merely pointing out the stupidity of these laws)

Someone once showed me a 'tactical pen' they carried, it was a fearsome-looking thing capable of inflicting very nasty injuries. People are endlessly inventive when it comes to devising such instruments.