Scots want to ban Airguns

[mayobushcraft]

Hi everyone

Im James i am from the states Florida Have been living in the U K for almost 4 years now. My thinking is that if you outlaw guns, knives, air guns, baseball bats and whatever. There will still be people who will find some way to do harm. lets ban everything and the world governments can supply everything we need to breathe, eat, sleep and we can live in soft rubber rooms all nice and cozy. safe as can be. Sounds like fun dont it. NOT FOR ME THANKS.

If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

I wish we as a world could live without fear of harm but it will never happen. and taking away the rights and joy of the lawfull for the lack of prison space for the unlawfull is a lack of freedom that is continuing to develop.

sorry to rave on but thanks for hearing me out

 

[nobby]

If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

I wish we as a world could live without fear of harm but it will never happen. and taking away the rights and joy of the lawfull .....

Sounds like a NRA advert.
There is no right to bear arms in the UK and never has been although it was unlicensed until about 100years ago.

 

[spamel]

If they ban, it is as a knee jerk reaction due to the unfortunate death of a child. Instead of a knee jerk reaction, they need to come down on the criminal with the full force of the law. I read something on yahoo news earlier about a criminal asking for his human rights. As far as I am concerned, a prison inmate shouldn't have any human rights. They have proved they cannot live as a member of society, and until they can they should lose all rights and comforts that could be expected for a law abiding person.

Why do prisoners have sky TV? It is amazing, I went to Iraq, a place I don't ever want to go to again and a place I would wish on nobody, yet I cannot afford sky TV. Yet some scrote in prison can!! Also, a chef told me that she was talking to a friend who is also a chef, and he did some work in a prison. They had 10 choices of food for each main meal, including steak!! What is going on?

If it was up to me, they'd get the minimum. How else are you supposed to stop reoffenders? If they riot, get the guards out and lock the place up, let them burn everything, who cares. When they finally calm down and ask for a new mattress and blankets, well where did your old one go?

I burnt it!!

Ohh, never mind, unlucky you'll get your new mattress in six months time, deal with it!!

They get too many rights and too much of the soft treatment. I have no problems with a guy who makes an honest mistake, maybe when he was younger but then goes on and reforms. The others who know how good they have it inside are bound to want to reoffend.

Sorry, I know I have gone right off topic here, but the knee jerk reactions that occur every five minutes makes my blood boil, there is no way anyone in power in this country can claim to be in touch with the voting public, they may aswell all go and live on Mars.

I've started building their space ship already so there is no excuse!!

 

[Greg]

If they ban, it is as a knee jerk reaction due to the unfortunate death of a child. Instead of a knee jerk reaction, they need to come down on the criminal with the full force of the law. I read something on yahoo news earlier about a criminal asking for his human rights. As far as I am concerned, a prison inmate shouldn't have any human rights. They have proved they cannot live as a member of society, and until they can they should lose all rights and comforts that could be expected for a law abiding person.

Why do prisoners have sky TV? It is amazing, I went to Iraq, a place I don't ever want to go to again and a place I would wish on nobody, yet I cannot afford sky TV. Yet some scrote in prison can!! Also, a chef told me that she was talking to a friend who is also a chef, and he did some work in a prison. They had 10 choices of food for each main meal, including steak!! What is going on?

If it was up to me, they'd get the minimum. How else are you supposed to stop reoffenders? If they riot, get the guards out and lock the place up, let them burn everything, who cares. When they finally calm down and ask for a new mattress and blankets, well where did your old one go?

I burnt it!!

Ohh, never mind, unlucky you'll get your new mattress in six months time, deal with it!!

They get too many rights and too much of the soft treatment. I have no problems with a guy who makes an honest mistake, maybe when he was younger but then goes on and reforms. The others who know how good they have it inside are bound to want to reoffend.

Sorry, I know I have gone right off topic here, but the knee jerk reactions that occur every five minutes makes my blood boil, there is no way anyone in power in this country can claim to be in touch with the voting public, they may aswell all go and live on Mars.

I've started building their space ship already so there is no excuse!!

Fantastic speech, do you fancy running for PM, you would get my vote for sure!

 

[spamel]

Fantastic speech, do you fancy running for PM, you would get my vote for sure!

Wouldn't know which party to run for!! Plus, when the opposition starts making smart remarks I'd get in trouble because getting someone in a headlock and hitting them repeatedly over the noggin with that big mace thingy is probably frowned upon in the house of commons!

 

[Greg]

Wouldn't know which party to run for!! Plus, when the opposition starts making smart remarks I'd get in trouble because getting someone in a headlock and hitting them repeatedly over the noggin with that big mace thingy is probably frowned upon in the house of commons!

You might actually knock some sense into them!!

 

[anthonyyy]

OK as someone from Scotland all I can do is give some of my experiences and opinions.

I used to work in a Regional park on the edge of a very deprived west of scotland community. The was not a day went by without litterally dozens of young teenagers heading into the park margins, with airguns, to take potshots at the wildlife. Birds, Rabbits, Squirrelsetc (as well as stray cats and dogs)

If they were approached, in a `Hi guys, how you doin' sort of a way, the guns would be aimed at your feet/legs for the entire conversation. They often also took potshots at each other as it was Funny. The current debate centres on a case where a two year old was killed by someone trying to shoot his older brother for a laugh.

Now most of these kids were bought guns by their parents, because they had them when they were young. But the problem was that the kids were never taught how to use them responsibly. Only taught how to pull the trigger. Airguns are fine, guns in general are fine, its just down to the attitude of the people holding them.

In some areas of Glasgow I have been threatened with knifes and with handguns ( usually it is young teenages) I don't want to generalise but where there is a positive input from parents and other suitable role models these things are less likely to occur. I have seen children as young as six dealing in drugs, these kids are genrally turfed out first thing in the morning and told not to come home till dark. They form gangs for protection and support. It is all too understandable, sometimes, but that doesn't make it right. Being one of the gang and doing things to make yourself aceptable is then what you do.

Any way, stops rambling.

Airguns are useful, I haven't got one but I have been considering it for a number of years. I live in a rural area and often have problems with vermin ( rats, rabbits, Pheasant (when they are in my garden ))

The problem is the same as the sharps problem, it is the people who use them illegally, not the tools themselves that are the problem. But the problem won't go away until people learn to respect nature and others around them, and in some areas I won't hold my breath.

Thought prevoking post.

 

[Toddy]

I'm very much with Silvergirl on this one.

There is a common misperception that Scotland is some rural idyll, when it is one of the most urbanized societies in the Western world. We live closely packed, with masses of rather unpopulated lands around our conurbations.

The real issue with airguns is their indiscriminate use within the conurbations; i.e. homes, gardens and public parks. I'm generally a peace loving soul, but I have physically taken an airgun from a cat targeting eejit and tossed it into the burn. I told him to go and tell his father what I'd done...and why. Funnily enough I've had no visits
Others haven't been so lucky. The two year old who was killed by a stoned and drunken thug targeting a working Fire crew was the last straw for many folks.
If airguns are banned or licenced then at least the police can take them off the nutters. It might not stop all of the problems but it will cut down the numbers.

Personally I'd prefer education and instruction, but the govenment won't pay for it and the numpties don't see the need.

cheers,
Toddy...whose sons have an air rifle and two pistols in the house.

 

[arbre de bouleau]

first rule of owning a gun never point it at someone . even if unloaded . how can that be made clearer ?

 

[spamel]

first rule of owning a gun never point it at someone . even if unloaded . how can that be made clearer ?

This is what they tell you in training with the forces, never point your rifle, even in jest, to which some clever sod always says "I'm not jesting!"

It's a rule that has kept me safe over the years, not from myself but from others. I have never had a negligent discharge, which is a chargeable offence in the British Army, although I have been around plenty of times when others have. French troops seem to be terrible for it, it happened on a daily basis when I served with them in 2003 in the Democratic Republic of Congo. They have a different outlook on things and it's just one of those things that happens to them!!

One of them ND'd with an automatic support weapon and I just happened to be standing directly in front of them as they drove out of the camp in their armoured vehicle. I was unloading my rifle at the time and had no idea they were behind me as they pulled up after I started unloading. The guy in the vehicle behind us jumped down and said the round must have missed my head by a metre, that left me a bit shaken and incredibly pi**ed off as you can imagine!!

Rifles of any sort need to be treated with respect and due care, and if what Toddy describes is a common occurence in her area, maybe the police there should devise a crime stopping programme to alleviate these morons of the responsibilty of owning air rifles. It doesn't help that a parent buys a rifle and gives it straight to their kids without any formal training.

Maybe a good law would be that kids need to join and be a member of an air rifle club if they wish to own an air rifle until the age of 16. Also, they need to be under supervision of a responsible adult if out shooting in publicly accessible areas such as farms and woodland, even if they have permission from the landowner.

 

[oops56]

I like spam well really treet the same thing have a sandwich with slice cheese fried

 

[Zodiak]

My Explorer unit two air rifles and we teach them to shoot, but because they only get to use them on a range I hadn't considered teaching them about reponsble use away from us.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with the law saying you had to be 18 or older to use one away from an NSRA approved range

Even then I wouldn't mind if they were licensed in the same way as a fishing license, but for differrent reasons, and maybe you would have to quote serial numbers .

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Sounds like a NRA advert.
There is no right to bear arms in the UK and never has been although it was unlicensed until about 100years ago.

The 'Atholl Highlanders' are the only legal armed private army in europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atholl_Highlanders

Nick

 

[sharp88]

The government is always trying to make it look like as if there doing somthing to solve the problem - E.g. little speed bumps everywhere...your just let it pass under the car, dosnt even hit the wheels, pointless.

All this stuff has been going on for years with people with mental health problems shooting up people and so forth anyway. Deepest sympathies for the families of people whom have had loved ones die due to poor use of firearms/airguns, but its always been going on and still will if you can own arms. Why dont they just concentrate on the ilegal weapons being shipped in from the east and such, that are killing all these kids.

 

[seamonkey]

It's a very emotive subject and the SNPare using the recent incidents to push it that way.

Like silvergirl i too grew up in angus scotland and can vouch for the small number of kids who abused airguns when i was a lad. However on the flipside myself and my friends were shooting various disciplines from the ages of 12 , i'll never forget the golden rule that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. But i have to admit that times have changed and i'll be happy to see the age of unsupervised use pegged at 18.
Ultimately education is the answer i reckon it's too easy for a 14 year old to obtain a 11ft/ibs chinese b12 or whatever from a car boot sale or similar without the knowledge of what that weapon is capable of

cheers

Graham

 

[Mikey P]

I could understand a ban on airguns that are 'replica weapons', but that then gives the airsoft guys a problem...

There are so many airguns out there, I suspect that this would be very difficult to enforce.

 

[Toddy]

Perhaps, but, guns are already perceived by most of our population as anti-social; there are a lot of eyes around to see, Airguns got such a really bad rep after the little boy was killed that more and more folks are willing to report them and their users to the police. Hidden use has to be just that, and a secret is only one if no-one else knows. Sleekit looking teenagers sneaking about immediately raise suspicion, nowadays so does anyone carrying a gunbag.
Tbh the gun lobby got caught with it's trousers down on this one; they ought to have immediately and calmly blamed the user and not the tool, and pro-actively publicised free basic training and best practise lessons at every club in the country ; maybe even have pushed for full licensing for all guns. Instead they're perceived as burying their heads in the sand, crying it's not fair, and being really out of touch with majority of public opinion. To the vast majority of folks in the UK guns have no place in society. I think the only way forward is to constantly emphasise responsibility and financially penalise those who don't do so. But then, that's a whole 'nother discussion

cheers,
Toddy

 

[seamonkey]

as an addition - i was speaking about crossbows today and what place they really have.
Now i know it is illegal to hunt with these in the uk but how many times have you heard of a swan or cat injured by them.
as far as i know the laws surrounding their use are the same as airguns ???

 

[British Red]

For me theres a point of logic here, and also a point of precedent.

Two types of firearms have been banned in Britain. Sem automatic centrefire rifles and cartridge firing handguns. These bans have had no effect on gun crime (other than it has risen dramatically). What on earth makes anyone think that a further ban will have any beneficial effect? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting the outcome to be different...

Secondly this proposed law makes private ownership of airguns more restrictive than a bolt action military rifle, pump action shotgun or black powder blunderbuss. Do we really think they are more potentially dangerouse than these types of firearms.

People who want to act recklessly will do so. If they ban air rifles (rather than enforce existing penalties for their misuse), as sea monkey says, crossblws will be next. Then archery. Then sheath knives. Taking Toddy's point and going with "the majority think", I rather suspect the majority would think there is no place for a fixed bladed knife carried outside the home or workplace. For any reason at all. Its for the children you know?

Heres a variation on a theme

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

First they came for the pistol shooters, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a pistol shooter
Then they came for the fox hunters, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a fox hunter
Then they cam for the airgunners, and I did not speak out -
for I was not an airgunner
Then they came for the bushcrafters
And no one spoke out for me

Red

 

[sheepdogbob]

Superb thread!!!
Hats off to the above, but since when did common sense have any connection to politians and the law?