Scotland Camping Ban to be Extended

[dwardo]

The usual excuse for a lack of rescources to enforce the law is money.
I dont see why we cannot enforce on the spot fines to supliment the cost of the wardens and police. It would only take a crack down of a few seasons and people would get the message. After all its only when some people are hit in the pocket that they listen. Chimps with huge fires on grass and causing trouble should just be fined on the spot and banned from the loch. Littering is also another one to enforce just keep slapping fines on people and they will soon get the message, they do it in cities now why not the coutryside.

 

[hobson]

The suggestion of Park Wardens having more power is great in theory, but it then comes down to how they use it, and the response from the people being dealt with.

If i was wild camping, which i do now and again, in as invisible a manner as possible, and a landowner/ranger came over and told me; 'sorry chap but you can't camp here, would you pack up and move on' i'd be packed up and down the road, no arguments and no bother.
BUT a group of youths who've parked up their lowered Saxo/Corsa on a field, decided to light a fire, get drunk and throw the cans in the river, it'd be a case of 'make us d**head' what you gonna do innit?'

and is one chap with a flashlight expected to deal with that?

 

[dwardo]

The suggestion of Park Wardens having more power is great in theory, but it then comes down to how they use it, and the response from the people being dealt with.

If i was wild camping, which i do now and again, in as invisible a manner as possible, and a landowner/ranger came over and told me; 'sorry chap but you can't camp here, would you pack up and move on' i'd be packed up and down the road, no arguments and no bother.
BUT a group of youths who've parked up their lowered Saxo/Corsa on a field, decided to light a fire, get drunk and throw the cans in the river, it'd be a case of 'make us d**head' what you gonna do innit?'

and is one chap with a flashlight expected to deal with that?

They should give one warning and then the police should come down, impound the saxo and charge them all with criminal damage, public disorder and drive them in a meat wagon to a cash machine. If they cannot pay they go to court.

We have loads of laws to protect against this stuff but they are never enforced.

 

[hobson]

I agree completely, in an ideal world, but the fact is, that the police are too busy and too understaffed to attend things like that, thats without taking into account how long it'd take them to get there.

Unless the wardens/rangers are given the same powers as the police, and i see no reason why they couldn't be, they are after all, civil servants protecting national parks, then they are limited in what they can do.

Just a brain fart, but we could set something up where soldiers back from tours in war zones are selected to do a tour policing the national parks, they get to serve their tour in a nice, easy place, we get wardens/rangers who would not take crap from idiots causing problems.
You'd get their experience in fieldcraft, their duty to country and their professional attitude as soldiers.They'd get to spend their days in the beautiful national parks, easy job and surely great for their mental well-being after the stress of being in a war zone.
And they'd be able to provide all that 24 hours a day, it's not like sleeping out under a tarp is a hard thing for a soldier to do!

I'd love to see some chavs arguing the toss with a soldier just back from Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan!

 

[dwardo]

I agree completely, in an ideal world, but the fact is, that the police are too busy and too understaffed to attend things like that, thats without taking into account how long it'd take them to get there.

Unless the wardens/rangers are given the same powers as the police, and i see no reason why they couldn't be, they are after all, civil servants protecting national parks, then they are limited in what they can do.

Just a brain fart, but we could set something up where soldiers back from tours in war zones are selected to do a tour policing the national parks, they get to serve their tour in a nice, easy place, we get wardens/rangers who would not take crap from idiots causing problems.
You'd get their experience in fieldcraft, their duty to country and their professional attitude as soldiers.They'd get to spend their days in the beautiful national parks, easy job and surely great for their mental well-being after the stress of being in a war zone.
And they'd be able to provide all that 24 hours a day, it's not like sleeping out under a tarp is a hard thing for a soldier to do!

I'd love to see some chavs arguing the toss with a soldier just back from Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan!

Brilliant idea, and arm them too :BlueTeamE

I was hopeing that the idea of big immediate fines would help to fund extra police and rangers and yes completely agree the rangers should have the same powers as police,,,,,and too should be armed.

 

[bronskimac]

I imagine rangers/wardens took the job because of a love of nature and a commitment to maintenance of the environment, not to be police officers trying to tackle an unknown number of Neds, who may have had a skin full, and will be resistant to requests to behave well or move on. Probably in low light or darkness and with no backup.

The timing of these events are also a problem for police officers. Friday and Saturday evenings tend to be a bit busy in the town centres. The politics of policing also have a major impact, not sure if there are enough votes to be won by asking the police to patrol out of town areas.

Fines paying for the policing is a bit of a serpent eating it's own tail. The more successfully (reduction in inappropriate behaviour and wild camping), the less income to pay for the policing...

Camping license?

 

[Woadhart]

I've wild camped, canoe camped and car camped in the Trossachs east of Loch Lommond several times before and after the initial restrictions were brought into force. Since the ban at spots I have been to before and after I have noticed a marked increase in litter and often fill up a couple of extra carrier bags of rubbish to take out with me that other people have ditched.

Some of the sites have been so awful that these days I even go to the extent of photographing my camp sites on my phone before and after I've camped and bag all the litter nearby the minute I'm settled into a spot just in case a ranger or even a member of the public passes by and thinks it is mine.

I acknowledge that my experiences are very much anecdotal (might have been lucky/unlucky at times) and are not worthy of drawing any definite conclusions from but as others have said, the core problem isn't being addressed and it seems like the bad use of the land is only being spread over a wider area.

Cleaning up litter is a bit annoying but easily done, however some of the damage being done isn't so easily fixed. At a lovely spot I've camped on a few times near Loch Ard I was saddened to see that some numpty had lit a fire against the trunk of an old tree and scorched it.

 

[bronskimac]

As bans will likely just move the problem somewhere else. How about setting up controlled Ned sites? Give them room for the Transit van and the Saxo/Corsa, a proper spot for pitching and a clearly marked fire area. Make room for several encampments and stick a few decent and robust CCTV cameras up. Would also need some very easy to read/clear graphic instructions.

A few penalties for littering, spotted by the Camera up a tree when they move on . The Saxo number plate identifying one of the culprits. If they wriggle out of it because the evidence doesn't show the car owner littering then just issue a ban on the car and owner from using the area again.

No help to us where camping is banned but would make enforcement simple; camp outwith these designate areas and get told to move on. One sweep by a police car in the early evening would likely catch most of them.

 

[Shewie]

I forgot to put up the reply I got from the CEO during the week ...

Hi Shewie,

Thanks again for your constructive and considered email. You are correct of course, that there are many people like yourself who use the beautiful islands responsibly, and that the anti social behaviour of others disrupts the experience for everyone.

Suffice to say that this consultation period is to gain the very type of response that you have given me, and I will ensure that Grant and the team take this as feedback. Any ideas on how we can tackle things in a fair way as we move forward are very welcome so thanks again for taking the time to write.

In slight defence of our position, we have outlined 3 options in the consultation papers, and all options are being considered along with any other ideas. There is no conclusions drawn at all until we are through this period.

Additionally, and for information, we currently have bye laws in place in east loch Lomond and there is no 'ban' at all, simply managed camping which allows responsible camping and provides facilities so the environmental damage is eradicated. The early indications there have been hugely positive with families coming back into the area, huge reductions in litter and anti social behaviour and local communities and businesses reporting positive messages.

So thanks again for the feedback and we certainly will take your comments on board.

Best,

Fiona

 

[Highbinder]

I agree completely, in an ideal world, but the fact is, that the police are too busy and too understaffed to attend things like that, thats without taking into account how long it'd take them to get there.

The police patrol the road up to Rowardennan daily. Twice daily, infact, as I can testify from recieving a fine from parking in a clearway myself as well as seeing plenty of cars on other days with tickets, too. From that road to the waters edge is never a far walk so to say the police couldn't get there is a bit off mate.

 

[personalisedsigns]

That is such a shame...I can understand why they have done it but it is completely unfair on those who go camping there for the love of nature. I have never been to Scotland and really really want to. Looking at doing so this year. Want to go camping near a gorgeous loch or something like that with our dogs. It is such a beautiful part of the world and is such a shame that insensitive people are going about ruining that for people.

 

[hog]

only the law abiding are affected by the rules...sadly.