Anger amid rise in 'dirty camping' in rural Scotland

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Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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S. Lanarkshire
There's a huge problem with the waste that's made of multiple materials. "The Pringle Can" problem. Metal, card, plastic, lining foil and glue, all in one container, that full costs around a pound. Only the outer lid is easily recycled.

Toilet stops are always going to be contentious. Janne's right in that eventually they provide plants with nutrients, but it's the getting it broken down first that's an issue.

Here we don't use 'nightsoil' as fertiliser on food crops. That's not the case in other countries where the practice is commonplace.
I think the most we do with ours is use some of it for tree plantations.

I commented elsewhere that the route between this village and the next town is inconveniently devoid of conveniences, or suitable privacy, when one is in urgent need. I suspect that situation is all too familiar to others.

M
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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.......Toilet stops are always going to be contentious. Janne's right in that eventually they provide plants with nutrients, but it's the getting it broken down first that's an issue.

Here we don't use 'nightsoil' as fertiliser on food crops. That's not the case in other countries where the practice is commonplace.
I think the most we do with ours is use some of it for tree plantations......M
We use it on golf courses.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
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Mid Wales
You all have a lot more faith in human nature than I do I'm afraid.

I don't believe it's a minority - I believe those of us that truly love the countryside and want to participate in it instead of dominate it are in a minority. There's a general 'f**k you' attitude in many people when they come out - whether it's the moors, the lakes, the seaside or even the rivers.

I'm canoeing the Spey in a weeks time; I really hope I'm not going to be disgusted by the mess; the Vyrnwy in March was just full of litter (a lot of it farm mess mind you).
 

Keith_Beef

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Sep 9, 2003
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Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
tout-à-l'égout
There's a huge problem with the waste that's made of multiple materials. "The Pringle Can" problem. Metal, card, plastic, lining foil and glue, all in one container, that full costs around a pound. Only the outer lid is easily recycled.
Yes, it's a big problem, but one that could be solved by better packaging design and by a bit of consumer participation.

Am I the only person here who pulls the plastic film from the empty tissue box, and the cardboard insert from a blister pack, so that the cardboard can go in the recycling bin?

Plant-based inks, plastics and glues, all compostable, exist. If the metal component could be eliminated or made easy to remove before sending to recycling, the problem would be lessened.

Toilet stops are always going to be contentious. Janne's right in that eventually they provide plants with nutrients, but it's the getting it broken down first that's an issue.

Here we don't use 'nightsoil' as fertiliser on food crops. That's not the case in other countries where the practice is commonplace.
I think the most we do with ours is use some of it for tree plantations.
Does anywhere in the West make nightsoil nowadays? I thought that either septic tanks or connection to the sewage system had been the rule since the 1950s. Over here in France, septic tanks on the outskirts of villages are disappearing as more and more homes are connected to the "tout-à-l'égout".

Waste water slurry from sewage works can be used as crop fertiliser.

I commented elsewhere that the route between this village and the next town is inconveniently devoid of conveniences, or suitable privacy, when one is in urgent need. I suspect that situation is all too familiar to others.
How long would it take to walk that distance?
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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S. Lanarkshire
Here, you're right, and it's slurry from the sewage works, but it's still not spread on arable land.

The distance is only a couple of miles. These days the walk down to and up over the bridge really hurts for me to do. I used to walk it every couple of days from toddlerhood on. Used to take me half an hour or so.

All the villages are becoming 'attached' to the towns and each other with buildings now. We're right in the centre of one of the "most desirable" areas for housing :sigh: and every wee scrap of land is being developed. Even old brownfield land is now under housing, very expensive housing, and housebuilders are eyeing up the present factory sites too.
It all means an awful lot of people and not a lot of quiet privacy if one is caught short. Much like most of suburbia I suspect.
 
Dog poo is another issue (and I mean in the more open countryside here). Many dog owners pick up their critters' poo, bag it then chuck the bag just off the trail - or even hang it on a branch! Bagged it will take a very long time to break down, and if the bag is plastic it will just slowly become smaller and smaller pieces of plastic. If they just flicked the poo a little way off the trail it would break down very rapidly and would probably be scarcely noticed by passers by. And no plastic pollution.
 
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Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
The multiple material packaging is a nightmare for us in Norway. There is a 100% recycling system, but we use all paper ( not toilet paper though) to burn in the woodburner. Those composite packages either smoke and stink of plastic, or we end up with aluminium bits in the ash.
We spread the ash in the garden.

I wonder if many people realize that most Aluminium cans have an inside covering of plastic? When they remelt the cans it gets burned off.
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
In UK, we used to have the septic tank emptied every second year. Here in the Tropics, in the heat, the bacteria is so efficient that everything ( faeces, paper, oil and fat from kitchen sink) ) is eaten up by them.
Hair and fibers from clothes too, but slower.
We had roots from a bush blocking the pipe, I had to clean it and remove the roots, and I was shocked how clean the septic was.
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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S. Lanarkshire
In India they developed a kind of septic tank that they actively fed with every kind of organic material that they could. It produces gas that the villagers use for cooking. It's a win/win because it digests sewage and other stuff that would attract flies, etc., It provides cooking fuel without them having to cut down local trees for wood, or buy expensive propane or coal, and the end product is a very good fertilizer for their fields....with no surviving pathogens.

I suspect that it only works so simply because of the background heat of the place. I don't think it'd work without an awful lot of insulation in the North of Europe or the British Isles.
Good way to create soil for a rocky tropical island though :D
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
The top part of the tank is made from some kind of water permeable blocks, the rest from cast reinforced concrete. The roots went through a tiny gap between those "airy' blocks.
The bushes surrounding the tank are beautiful, bloom at all times grow like mad!
Bougainvilla of all colours.

The soil I have under my trees, bushes and banana plants all came in plastic bags, imported from the Sunny State, Florida1
Our plot of land is excavated, filled in Mangrove. Nutritional value of the Moon.


Those messed up areas in Scotland, are they close to parking areas or roads ? In my experience, that kind of people seldom venture more than a couple hundred of meters from their transport.
what they do is drinking cheap booze and scoff food from cans.

I certainly hope the authorities catch a few and fine them heavily as an example.
Or, as they most likely have no money, force them to do Community Service.
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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Yes ! Litter picking miles from anywhere so they can't skive off! Make them pick up dog (and human) poo. Let's see if they decide to litter after three or four weeks of picking up other people's rubbish and crap. Reckon they might think twice if they had to do that. I'd volunteer to be a supervisor... let alone pay me ! I'd realy make the blighters work off their social dues! :)
 
Jan 13, 2018
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Rural Lincolnshire
Not allowed a cat o nine tails??? What is the world comming to????? I'm sure that the law makes no mention of a cat o ten tails. :) :)
You are absolutely correct - but it was the act of flogging, whipping or lashing that was forbidden in Britain in 1948.
(It didn't seem to stop me getting the 'cane' at school in the 50's)

Flogging is a form of punishment still used under Islamic Sharia law. It is the prescribed punishment for offences including fornication, alcohol use and slander and is also widely favoured as a discretionary punishment for many offences, such as violating gender interaction laws. Punishment is normally carried out in public. However, some scholars maintain that this goes against the teachings of Islam.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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I believe the DNA database consists only of serious criminals.
If Tengu throws away her debris in a lane she will never be caught.

Also, to retrieve DNA from a pile of rubbish is an Herculean effort.
It must contain the DNA from lots of people, and how do you determine which one is the culprit?

It is better, easier and far cheaper to prevent this by education.
It works in other countries, will work in the British isles too.

It is known from which countries the culprits are in my area in Norway.
Packaging ( food mainly) from specific countries. We help to pick up the rubbish in our neighborhood.
Also it is easy to check with the local supermarket who bought the food which is sold by weight, either type fruit and veg, or prepackaged with different weight on the packages.

It is getting so bad the local council have been discussing closing down some of the tourist destinations and spots.
The DNA database is from everyone who is arrested for a criminal offence, I think they can't keep the records if you are found Innocent but the police keep forgetting to destroy the records, accidentally of course...
 
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demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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Kin ell, public flogging eh?

Gets all Lord Of The Flies pretty quick here dunnit?

Maybe try educating people with polite signs before we go all Defcon 1 on their a55?
Y'know, carrots before sticks?

Is that too many question marks in just one post?
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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:) I don't realy believe in public flogging. But it does make me realy cross when people are so thoughtless and care not for their environment!
Mind you education and polite notices can and often are completely ignored by those who couldn't care less.
I really don't know the definitive answer.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,226
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:) I don't realy believe in public flogging. But it does make me realy cross when people are so thoughtless and care not for their environment!
Mind you education and polite notices can and often are completely ignored by those who couldn't care less.
I really don't know the definitive answer.
Naah, I don't know the answer myself, I suspect there's a certain percentage of numpties in the world and you might manage to educate most people and with luck subdue some others from their idiocy and some will always be there, getting coked off their face and strutting round like a Banty male*.

I'm not sure we should penalise everyone who wants to go camping because of the few though.


*Other word for a male chicken available but not used because of filter.

Yeah, no real answer there, sorry.