SAS Bergen, personal experience anyone?

[Swede]

Have anyone of you any experience of the following rucksacks?

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Silver/docs/topframe.htm

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Silver/docs/topframe.htm

How about the frame, harness, fabric etc. ?/Swede

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

is this what you wanted to show?
(silvermans don't allow pictures to be copied)

if so, i have used this during army training just as the new PLCE came in.
it's heavy before you start as the frame is thick steel!
it is tough and huge, though i found the pockets a bit small.
the straps are again tough but basic, you have to tie the lid shut rather than modern pastic clips.

all in all strong, it sits high on the back (over webbing) bt the frame and shoulder straps are an old design, it hasn't a chest or belt strap.

the PLCE is far better!

this is a possible better option:

Airborne bergen

 

[leon-1]

I found there were two opinions to them, either you loved them or hated them. Personally I am no great fan and agree with RAPPLEBY2000, you would be better off with a modern PLCE variant.

 

[Swede]

@ RAPPLEBY2000

Oops. Tanks for your reply. I didn´t preview and tested the links before I posted. I didn´t know they didn´t allow their pics to be published. Anyway, they had one new "GS Bergen" (style 32013) 80 litres for £ 75 and another used "SAS PARA Bergen and parts" (style 32002) 125 litres for £ 20. They seems to be old compared to rucksack now. I think I´ve seen the bigger one in the movie "Who dares wins" from the 80's built on the Iranian embassy siege. In the beginning of the movie the SAS have an exercise in Wales for an american and an german. I´m a great fan of simplicity. Simple thing don´t break down that easy and if they do it´s sometimes easy to fix. For example the swedish rucksacks 35 L, K and 70 L, K. I can see the difference in your pics . The Silvermans had a lot of other great stuff too. /Swede

 

[leon-1]

Anyway, they had one new "GS Bergen" (style 32013) 80 litres for £ 75 and another used "SAS PARA Bergen and parts" (style 32002) 125 litres for £ 20.

The GS bergen, don't even go there.

Your reference to the film is correct IIRC.

 

[Mikey P]

Try the UK infantry bergen (not the GS shopping bag) with detachable pouches (they zip onto a yolk to make a day sack). You can get them on ebay, army surplu shops, and also at Trueways (sp?) Survival (the Lofty Wiseman training school).

They are big and tough. Probably too big for bushcraft - not sure why I'd want to carry that much stuff for fun - Busman's Holiday, really . Mind you, if you want to carry big loads over long distances for a low price, I would recommend them.

 

[pumbaa]

The Gs and SAS/Para bergan is horrid . They may be strong , but if you do any distance carrying it , you will end up with bergan burns . Not a nice experience !! I use the berghaus range myself and did when enlisted too . The plce is ok , but you can get better if you have the budget . Dont do it to yourself , leave the Sas/para for the re-enacters .
Pumbaa

 

[Surrey Yeoman]

I agree, the SAS/Para and GS bergens may have looked Gucci, but they were hideous to actually use and did their best to wear through your back when they were loaded up!

The PLCE Infantry bergen was much better, although still not the most comfy thing in the world to wear when fully loaded.

I've just sold mine on ebay as I no longer had a use for it. I did have it modified from standard with extra pouches........

http://i20.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/8a/5d/c8a9_1.JPG

............which made it even better, two sewn onto the main body and one sewn onto the front of each side pouch.

Yeoman

 

[Oakleaf]

A key consideration with these type of packs is that they are designed to carry over webbing - so tend to be short in the back. Even with 'hip' belts fitted, the strap tends to be too high to offer effective load carrying across the hips.

If you have a need to carry webbing, thats a trade off you have to make. Otherwise, unless you have a very short spine, these packs - combined with heavy load/ frequent use - have a very real danger of inflicting serious back damage.

Unless the need is there, I would urge a proper fitting pack every time and a proper split of the load between shoulders and hips. But fully support ( no pun intended ) everyones right to choose.

Apologies for lecture, but my soulmate carries a 10inch scar along her spine - which drives this home to me every day. In addition to a significant amount of titanium and screws prevents her being a paraplegic - courtesy of both military mentality and badly fitting bergans.

 

[Surrey Yeoman]

Absolutely spot on about them being designed to go over webbing and causing back troubles, Oakleaf.

Everyone in my unit raved about how good the "short back" Infantry bergen was, so that they could wear it over their webbing. I stuck with the long back version and used an assault vest instead of belt order. Carried everything I needed and I was able to use the hip belt too!

Yeoman

 

[Swede]

Thank you all for the info. The rucksacks look very old in their design hence all the back problem they´ve caused. It´s known by swedish people in the service (military) that you (british military) carry your rucksacks the way you do cause of the webbing. I was adviced to, if I ordered an PLCE Bergen, to be sure of that it was one with a long back for being able placing the hipbelt around the hip. There are similar storys in Sweden about the 70 L, K rucksack to be uncomfortable to carry with heavy loads. One more question, whats the "GS" in "GS Bergen"? /Swede

 

[bikething]

snip....One more question, whats the "GS" in "GS Bergen"? /Swede

"General Service" I beleive

 

[Swede]

Thank you..... /Swede

 

[Greg]

I have to agree with Rappleby2000, I had one in the Army because everyone one thought they were "ALLY" (Well 'Ard and Cool!!), but after some hard tabbing in it, it took the skin off my back!

Everyone I knew who had one modded it by placing part of a ground mat in front of the framework so the metal wouldn't rub.

I would now after experience go with the short back PLCE bergen.

 

[Goose]

The frame used on the para/sas bergen is the GS frame the same as used for clansman radios, I aquired a few more back straps to try and spread the load but the design of them is so pants they wouldn't stay tight I think I gave mine away, they looked good and were THE thing to have but the harness was useless. The bag was ok to use but the problem, I think, was with the frame and the size therefore the weight that could be carried!
I also had an arctic(royal marine) bergen, it was a lot easierto carry and it looked huge, problem with that one is it was a pain to use the bag. It was a long backed one and designed to be narrow but it meant you couldn't reach the bottom of the bag, it looked like you were carrying the whole G10 store with you but in truth it struggled to fit in a sleeping bag and a rat box!
I think the biggest problem was the only issue general issue "rucsac" for years was the large pack, biggest waste of space ever

I now have an american ALICE pack, I like the bag but I haven't had to carry it any distance yet, and don't have to any more, I bought it quite cheaply but never went anywhere without a vehicle after that!

 

[backwoodsman]

get the para bergan, best one l have ever used, the pouches on the outside are good for getting little things stowed away, without going into the main part.

 

[katiestone]

okay 20 years ago, but things have moved on since then. If you do buy one, check the yellow pages for a good chiropractor and forget the bushcraft. If you need to carry a pack that big, you're carrying too much!

 

[Jjv110]

I think the biggest problem was the only issue general issue "rucsac" for years was the large pack, biggest waste of space ever

I once read a quote about the 'large' pack. "Trying to get your sleeping bag into one, is like trying to stuff a rapidly inflating rubber elephant, into a matchbox"!! And it's true.

This is my opinion: The GS (General Service) is small, heavy and very uncomfortable if your using it seriously, ie, if your going to town for a loaf of bread it'll be ok, but using it for carrying loads is a no good. I used mine for a school bag years ago and even then it was uncomfy.

The SAS/Para is the same in design but much bigger. Both have the heavy, plastic coated steel frame as used for the 351 etc, and the straps attatch to the sac with 'dog' style clips, which end up digging into your shoulders and they become very sore. Most people used pipe lagging to pad them out, but it's not the solution. There is no waist/hip belt, and they are heavy before you put anything in them.
They are, however, indestructable, but just too bulky and heavy.

The ALICE ( All -Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment) is basically the same as the SAS/Para, a bit smaller maybe and the material is softer and lighter, but they are all dated and don't compare to the newer styles.
One big advantage about all these, is that they are compatible with webbing. Nowadays many soldiers wear chest rigs and so this doesn't come into it so much. (especially if you're a civy)!

I would go for a Berghaus Vulcan. Lighter than a PLCE (Personal Load Carrying Equipment) and more waterproof. As big, and can take pouches strapped to the outside if you need more, but you'll have difficulty lifting it after that. It's got a zipped base section, to access your kit and it can even be used with webbing, although only belt order with a few pouches. The side pouches are the same as the PLCE in the sense that they can be detatched and used as a seperate daysack.
They can be found for £140.00 if you look around. It will last for years.

Phew, I've obviously got too much time on my hands
Happy bergen hunting.

 

[Jedadiah]

Ditto, agree with Jjv 110 (again). If you can get a Berghaus Vulcan or Cyclops, or even a Crusader 2, they will serve you well, comfortable and capacious i think.

The Alice pack i had (small version) was great as a day sack with the frame removed, that was replaced by a Berghaus Munro, my favourite (mmmmmmmm).

Saying that though, the PLCE was modelled on the Larger Berghaus Bergens so you wont go far wrong, they are cheap and easily available.

 

[FGYT]

as above only use a military short bergan If your using belt order or very light loads or your not actually going to carry it very far cos you will do your back in

ive had a Vulcan for 15yrs or so and it still is the best load carrier ive ever used and holds more than i can carry if im not careful fits all the PLCE side pouchs etc other than that at least get a full length bergan that loads the hips as well as the shoulders

ATB

Duncan