SACKit - Staying Alive Cold Kit.

[Gray]

Yeah, this can work with any kind of poncho of course....

This kit is mainly for a situation where you don't have such a thing...

This thing is in your pocket or your bum bag
You don't have a backpack with lots of nice survival gear...

If you did then of course you would never need to use this method.

i wasnt having a go at you, i've got a nylon poncho that stuffs into a pocket size bag. This with a t light would be awesome. Its not fireproof but even with a micro uco lantern would be great. I love the idea, as a survivalist i think its great and will be added to my survival kit. Thanks for sharing Susanne.

 

[Toddy]

My cheapo just in case cagoule weighs in at 120g Susanne and it does go in a pocket. It's much more practical than trying to hold down a sheet of stuff that wants to be a kite.
I opened up one of the shiny sheets on a hillside and the damned thing was impossible to do anything much with.
Someone did a review not long since about the shelters made from the same stuff that we can get for £1. Even that would be better than the sheet.

The NO was in response to yours. It was a quiet hint.
Fire and plastic is a bad idea, but then, each to their own.
I sincerely hope none of you end up with it melted to you.

cheers,
M

 

[susannewilliams]

My cheapo just in case cagoule weighs in at 120g Susanne and it does go in a pocket. It's much more practical than trying to hold down a sheet of stuff that wants to be a kite.
I opened up one of the shiny sheets on a hillside and the damned thing was impossible to do anything much with.
Someone did a review not long since about the shelters made from the same stuff that we can get for £1. Even that would be better than the sheet.

WEIGHT & USEFULLNESS
Space Blanket is 45grams and you can do many other things with it.
22 Uses of Space Blanket
http://www.wnd.com/markets/news/rea...n_uses_for_space_blankets_by_sos_rescue_tools
http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/22½-uses-for-emergency-mylar-space-blankets-03242014

The NO was in response to yours. It was a quiet hint.
Fire and plastic is a bad idea, but then, each to their own.

FIRE & SPACE BLANKETS
I understand the general principle, yes.

Space blankets are made of LDPE which is actually one of the less terrible plastics in terms of fire behaviour
In fact I have lit one of these on fire from a candle to see exactly how close the candle needs to be and what happens next. (Not as bad as you may think...)
Still, you don't want it to burn.
Obviously.


RISK EVALUATION
Each person should evaluate the risks for themselves. I would still rather have a manageable risk of a tiny controlled flame inside my sheet than the risk of death by exposure.

But like you and I both have said, each person should make up their own minds.

In fact, my personal view is that MOST people have absolutely NO BUSINESS being in any kind of mountain or wilderness setting without the full backpack of survival gear.

Fell running
Sea Kayaking
Mountain Biking
and the like are risk sports for which the PREREQUISITE is to be able to make proper comparative and situational risk assessments.

I sincerely hope none of you end up with it melted to you.

Me too, and I also hope none of you ever need to make the assessment of whether you need to do this or suffer from exposure...

Looking at the accident stats in UK, Europe and USA, though... a disproportionate number of people get in trouble from exposure on the hills every year.


Peace

S

 

[susannewilliams]

i wasnt having a go at you, i've got a nylon poncho that stuffs into a pocket size bag. This with a t light would be awesome. Its not fireproof but even with a micro uco lantern would be great. I love the idea, as a survivalist i think its great and will be added to my survival kit. Thanks for sharing Susanne.

No worries... I don't experience anyone as "having a go."

Important views & opinions and these things need to be really carefully thought about and evaluated...


If you have a poncho...even better...

 

[susannewilliams]

I really like the SACKit idea and completely get the concept, associated scenarios, risk factors etc (and thanks to Susanne for sharing it).

For a heavier duty variation, some may be interested in this Youtube video fom Gary Wale (ex Bearclaw, Survivall). In it he uses a candle and old-school survival bag set up (from 11 mins 30 or thereabouts) in much the same manner (noting similar constraints).

[video=youtube;w-nyk3uU_K0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-nyk3uU_K0[/video]

Nice ONE....

It has some great variations

• German hunters put a candle in their loden coats
• Norwegian army puts one or more candles inside their Jerven Bags
• Old School scouts use a wool blanket and a small fire

 

[petrochemicals]

Good idea but what does one do about the draught ? Do you think you could use a poncho or emergency bothy shelter, and would a handwarmer(zippo type) not be a bit safer.

super lightweight bivvy/bothy, and a summerweight feather sleeping bag all in a drysack, in a bum bag is the canoeists alternate, have often wondered why the fishermen on deadliest catch dont do something with a liferaft incorporated.

Edit.

Mesh should reduce the fire risk, see duwey miners lamp I think

 

[susannewilliams]

Good idea but what does one do about the draught ? Do you think you could use a poncho or emergency bothy shelter, and would a handwarmer(zippo type) not be a bit safer.

super lightweight bivvy/bothy, and a summerweight feather sleeping bag all in a drysack, in a bum bag is the canoeists alternate, have often wondered why the fishermen on deadliest catch dont do something with a liferaft incorporated.

Edit.

Mesh should reduce the fire risk, see duwey miners lamp I think

Draught: Draught is not problem. You tuck the edges in. (See the vid)

Poncho / Bothy - sure you can use if you have them. They are heavier, bulkier, and have less general uses that the sheet.

Remember this is a thing that one is carrying in a pocket of a PFD or a running jacket, MTB windshirt. When nothing else is there...

Mesh could certainly help to prevent direct flame contact but I think the main worry is the melt point....


Peace

Susanne

 

[Tristar777]

Hi. Sounds like another version of the mountain survival bag that has been used for many years now. For a visual check out youtube and Gary Wale's channel.

 

[Turistas]

Plastic bag and candle NO NO NO!!!. What will happen if you start sleep, special in cold weather when body just warm up and you are tired straight you became sleepy. Then you cant feel your movements, flame from candle easy can catch bag.... so never ever use this!!!
I say what you can to do just put inside in bag, grass, leaves all what you can find around Its gives you extra warm inside like sleeping bag. If you can have campfire then take stones from fire place put between clothes, or in bag ( bag take inside survival bag)- gives extra heat. is Plenty stuff what you can do. Is just my opinion.

 

[TinkyPete]

Hot rock is clothes is even worse especially if modern fabrics are used melted clothing directly on skin. It is a major NO NO in the military. If you are feeling tired the easiest thing is to put out the candle and sort yourself out and then stand up and move around, with the sackit idea you are not as likely to fall asleep. If it is in a storm the grass is likely to be wet and then you have to use your own body heat to dry it out and that then takes away heat from your core and will speed up the process of hypothermia. This is a last ditch method as stated but it is a kit which is light and easy to carry. It has been thought out by adventure racers and extreme light weight campers who try to think things through. Yes people always get into trouble and fell runners and light weight people are no different but they are trying to have something to get sorted for a short while and not for a long term period i.e. waiting for a storm to pass or fog to lift when on a mountain side. To me everyone should carry some form of insulation device when going out in any conditions, I use a large bin liner, SOL heatsheets blankets and emergency bivi bags amongst my collection all are extremely lightweight and take hardly any room in any pocket or pouch

PLEASE Think before you use this and think when using this or any method but please using something Hypothermia is the biggest killer out in the hills.

 

[Dave]

I've read that the norwegian military carry the tea light candles for use in their jervenbags, which raise the temp substantially.

Ive got tallow candles, [although never tried eating one] but will have to look into getting some beeswax ones.

 

[rik_uk3]

What does the BCUK 'Arctic' crew (who must have have extensive Arctic experience) think of Sussane's idea's ? She seems to experience far more than most of us here so perhaps the more experienced members here can give an educated (from personal sub zero experience) opinion?

 

[Turistas]

Hot rock is clothes is even worse especially if modern fabrics are used melted clothing directly on skin. It is a major NO NO in the military. If you are feeling tired the easiest thing is to put out the candle and sort yourself out and then stand up and move around, with the sackit idea you are not as likely to fall asleep. If it is in a storm the grass is likely to be wet and then you have to use your own body heat to dry it out and that then takes away heat from your core and will speed up the process of hypothermia. This is a last ditch method as stated but it is a kit which is light and easy to carry. It has been thought out by adventure racers and extreme light weight campers who try to think things through. Yes people always get into trouble and fell runners and light weight people are no different but they are trying to have something to get sorted for a short while and not for a long term period i.e. waiting for a storm to pass or fog to lift when on a mountain side. To me everyone should carry some form of insulation device when going out in any conditions, I use a large bin liner, SOL heatsheets blankets and emergency bivi bags amongst my collection all are extremely lightweight and take hardly any room in any pocket or pouch

PLEASE Think before you use this and think when using this or any method but please using something Hypothermia is the biggest killer out in the hills.

Yes I AGREE you CANT use stones for heating in clothing because of new fabric( modern), but I say from my expierence with small stone in pockets and fabric was cotton not syntetic and etc.
And military method is good just start running if it cold (I had that), but I say about my example if you are so tired, have injury or something else like you cant run, stand and you alone. I think if you have fire and burning material you will survive

ps
AND how TinkyPete say -PLEASE Think before you use this and think when using this or any method.

 

[TinkyPete]

What I mean is be prepared, Think before going out on any adventure or trip out in the hills or countryside. Have a back up plan, plan escape routes, leave your details with someone before you go out and tell them once you are safe. Carry a fully charged mobile phone and money for a call box (if there are any still in your area)

Very basic but very important things to do before any trip even a quick walk out, let alone a full expedition, it can be something as simple as telling your other half your going out for a walk with the dog and you'll only be 20 minutes, if you do not appear after several hours they may be calling your phone or seeing if you are in the pub but at least someone is looking for you.

 

[susannewilliams]

You MUST - "Just notice"

You must do your own experimentation and make your own judgements

That is the whole point.

Peace

Susanne

 

[susannewilliams]

Obviously THINK!!!

Think before you go out
Think when you see the weather change
STOP - Stop Think Observe Plan - when something goes wrong.

Personally I think that most people have absolutely NO business being in the hills in any kind of ultra-light kit.

But - if you do.

Then the SACKit may make all the difference.

I'll tell you a story of the arctic.

Most years we take a group up to arctic finland in early Feb.
About 4 hours north of the polar circle.
-35c to -47c

These are good people. Quite aware.
But they have not been here before and so they do not know what they do not know.
And that is what will kill them.

So on the first night. Everyone gets bundled up in snowmobile overalls and down mitts and all

And we walk maybe half a mile down a groomed track. Then about 75-100 yards through the deep snow to a clearing

We sit in the snow. Take in the stars etc. 10-15 mins.

Then we ask - How are you feeling? Anyone cold?

No no all good.

Well what do you feel like doing, now that we are out here?

Well maybe look at the stars some more....
Yeah maybe lay back and check out the moon... Another says.

Aha. OK. (Says we) Looking at the stars some more. Ok. But let's do this little thing first.
So we ask them to check their pulse. And wow. Check it out. The pulse is racing. And yet we have been sat still for 10-15 mins. Why do you think that could be? (We ask)

No one has any clue.

"It's because you are dying...., and your body is trying to preserve your core functions..."

Noooo - they say.

"Try to walk back to the path then" - we say.

It generally takes 45mins to an HOUR to get back to the path. 75-100 yards over an already broken trail.

We walk them back gently. Then rewarm them from their flash hypothermia in the sauna.

Then, in there, we talk.

We talk about why we ask them never to go out alone. And why they need to notice even more deeply what is going on.

And then they talk.



Please. Don't. Die. An. Ignorant. Death.

(Yes. I run on my back country cross country skis in this weather with a soft shell, a phone/satcomm and.... A SACKit...)

Peace

The Girl

 

[susannewilliams]

I've read that the norwegian military carry the tea light candles for use in their jervenbags, which raise the temp substantially.

Ive got tallow candles, [although never tried eating one] but will have to look into getting some beeswax ones.

That's correct. And I do that too. Very effective.

S

 

[susannewilliams]

Plastic bag and candle NO NO NO!!!. What will happen if you start sleep, special in cold weather when body just warm up and you are tired straight you became sleepy. Then you cant feel your movements, flame from candle easy can catch bag.... so never ever use this!!!
I say what you can to do just put inside in bag, grass, leaves all what you can find around Its gives you extra warm inside like sleeping bag. If you can have campfire then take stones from fire place put between clothes, or in bag ( bag take inside survival bag)- gives extra heat. is Plenty stuff what you can do. Is just my opinion.

If you have a campfire, you don't need a SACKit.

Again - see the scenario.

Twisted anke fell running or hiking
Fall off mountain bike on a remote track
Bad swim out of your kayak and now you are on shore. Alive but very cold.

These.

These are the things that will kill.

 

[susannewilliams]

What does the BCUK 'Arctic' crew (who must have have extensive Arctic experience) think of Sussane's idea's ? She seems to experience far more than most of us here so perhaps the more experienced members here can give an educated (from personal sub zero experience) opinion?

Who are the BCUK Arctic Crew? I wanna play!!!

Edit - Ah found the sub zero forum. Good.

Nice to be amongst those who actually do go up North. Good forum, this.

We go up to polar regions most years end Jan / beginning Feb.

And of course, here in the Alps it get pretty cold in Winter. (-20 to -35c are not at all uncommon even at moderate altitude, and then you have all the additional mountaineering challenges)

 

[scoteng]

Apologies for my ignorance, what is a PFD?

Edit: And as soon as I post I work it out! Personal Flotation Device (I had guessed a buoyancy aid from the context)