Sabre 45 + Pouches.

[C_Claycomb]

Pack size is more about the conditions you expect, the ammount of food you will be packing, and how good you are at packing small. Don't take too many clothes

For instance. Stuart has done much of his travelling with just the two PLCE side pockets fixed to the yoke. When food hasn't been a big issue he has used that pack for months at a time. I

There are bound to be folk here who can tell you about what goes into making military pack loads. Much isn't relevant to civvies, we can get by with less and lighter kit.

 

[Greg]

Pack size is more about the conditions you expect, the ammount of food you will be packing, and how good you are at packing small. Don't take too many clothes

For instance. Stuart has done much of his travelling with just the two PLCE side pockets fixed to the yoke. When food hasn't been a big issue he has used that pack for months at a time. I

There are bound to be folk here who can tell you about what goes into making military pack loads. Much isn't relevant to civvies, we can get by with less and lighter kit.

I completely agree with you, its unbelievable how much extra crap you take with you on any given army deployment on top of your normal gear - rations, water, spare ammo, mortar base plates, radios, spare radio batteries, radio ancillaries, tool kits etc, etc - you name it. thats why the bergen is so bloody big & have you seen the size of the army issue sleep system.

 

[Footzo]

I completely agree with you, its unbelievable how much extra crap you take with you on any given army deployment on top of your normal gear - rations, water, spare ammo, mortar base plates, radios, spare radio batteries, radio ancillaries, tool kits etc, etc - you name it. thats why the bergen is so bloody big & have you seen the size of the army issue sleep system.

That's part of the problem - I have 'that' sleeping bag.
My Bivvy bag is tiny compared to the issue one. I think I'll ijust ignore him.
I'm pretty sure that even if the bag takes up half the main sack pocket I should be OK.

If all else really fails then I'll add the bag on the outside I guess.

I was just hoping for a bit of confidence before ordering by seeing a pic on someones back - you'd think somewhere on the www I could find one but I'm failing miserabley. (EDIT - I just found a little pic on hawkmoor!)

Thanks again.

 

[Zammo]

I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.



I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.

 

[Footzo]

That's Bang on Zammo - I can live with that (vertical on the front)

I won't always have the bag and/or the side pouches with me and any bigger defeats the object. I could always get a tough vinyl dry bag to effectivly patch the mice holes in the 100l bergen if I ever really needed a huge pack anyway.

Sorry for thinking 'out loud' but it does help!

 

[Greg]

I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.



I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.

That is rubbish, I am sorry but by taking the sleeping bag out of the compression sack you pack your normal gear in the bottom of your bergen, then put the sleeping bag inside the bivi bag and that will go ontop of the other gear. It will compress trust me, I did it for twelve years in the Army.
your waterproofs and basha kit can go in one side pouch and all your food an cooking gear in the other.

These bergens are big, but I love them for there simplicity and rugged design. If you don't mind carrying alot of gear (like me!) then I would buy one without question.
It all depends if your one of these minimalist people who don't like carrying anything.
The choice at the end of the day is yours.
But please don't pack your sleeping bag like this.
you'll look a right numpty.

 

[Greg]

Hello again all,

I was in conversation with an ex-army guy last night and he's trying to convince me that the sabre45 just isn't big enough - even with the pouches on.
He's suggesting a 'turtle pack' which I can't find a picture of and the only comment on here I can find via the search engine is "don't touch the turtle pack!"

So, sorry to impose further but: does anyone know of or have a picture of a sabre 45 actually sitting on someone's back?

Thanks again for you help.

This ex army guy obviously knows Jack about packing bergens. And the fact that the turtle pack is smaller than the issue bergen shows this!
Just because some guys say thay are ex Forces it doesn't automatically means they know what they are taking about!

So unless you want a nice back injury stay away from the turtle pack, they were brought in to army issue purely for the support arms who don't do alot of marching with kit. alot of guys and girls have been injured using these turtle packs for load carrying!
If your bergen is a military issue 125Lt then you should have plenty of room.
I wish I could show you how easy it is to pack these military bergens.
I lived out of my bergen on operations for six months at a time and I didn't own any fancy lightweight gear, all I had was issue stuff.

 

[Footzo]

Hi Greg - I have a 125 l bergen (including a couple of mice holes and I could get a car in it. The original idea was to get a smaller, more flexible system. I was asking about a 45l sabre not the 125l bergen which, as I said I could take huge amounts in.
Thanks for the word on the turtle packs. The whole concept as he explained it to me sounded bizarre to say the least. The seed of doubt was fitting the sleep system bag inside the 45 litre Sabre. Zammo's example seems OK to me when carrying the 45l sabre. Obviously if I took my big bergen (including the mice holes ) the bag wouldn't need to be on the outside at all.

Cheers.

 

[Greg]

I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.



I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.

Ooops sorry Zammo, my apologies I am obviously going blind.

 

[Greg]

Hi Greg - I have a 125 l bergen (including a couple of mice holes and I could get a car in it. The original idea was to get a smaller, more flexible system. I was asking about a 45l sabre not the 125l bergen which, as I said I could take huge amounts in.
Thanks for the word on the turtle packs. The whole concept as he explained it to me sounded bizarre to say the least. The seed of doubt was fitting the sleep system bag inside the 45 litre Sabre. Zammo's example seems OK to me when carrying the 45l sabre. Obviously if I took my big bergen (including the mice holes ) the bag wouldn't need to be on the outside at all.

Cheers.

Yep your right you will never get a issue bag in a 45Lt patrol pack! Except attaching you bag on the outside and still looking like a numpty (Its a pet hate of mine), buy a more compact bag. I have one that I bought in Blacks, it cost me £30 a couple of years ago and is ok to use in all but the coldest weather. and that goes in my daysack with my bivibag and other gear.

 

[C_Claycomb]

For the bulk/weight conscious, this is a great site to give you ideas and see what some posibilites are.
http://hikinghq.net/

This has to be the most minamalist pack you can get
http://hikinghq.net/gear/moonbow_gearskin.html

I am far from as light a camper as I would like, but looking at the lists and suggestions from the above and similar pages has helped me to pare away a lot of stuff that I don't need for weekend trips. On longer trips I still have too much stuff...carrying food really points out when your base weight is still too high

 

[Footzo]

Hi All,

Sorry to drag this up again but:
It's nearly pay day and I was about to push the button on the sabre 45 and went mooching around ebay for a yoke and read this:

"Please note. Thes side pockets are for the earlier model olive bergen and the side pocket zips are upside down relative to the later issue bergens."

It's from this item:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLCE-Olive-tw...itemZ250073107520QQcategoryZ588QQcmdZViewItem

So - panic has once again set in as my bergen is olive and therefore so are my side packs and now I'm worried that the zips will be upside down in relation to the sabres.

Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.

Does that sound right?

Sorry for the questions but the purchase would be mail order and I don't want to foot the bill of returning it.
RocketPak is looking tastier every day!

Cheers All.

 

[FGYT]

Taking the sleeping bag out of the compression sack you pack your normal gear in the bottom of your bergen, then put the sleeping bag inside the bivi bag and that will go ontop of the other gear. It will compress trust me, I did it for twelve years in the Army.
your waterproofs and basha kit can go in one side pouch and all your food an cooking gear in the other.

yep thats always worked for me (in my Vulcan 2 ) usually had at least one set of cloths in the Bag as well so you can change easy. letting the Doss bag (in bivy bag) fill out the remaining space stops the Loft compressing and is easy to deploy and looks heavy

have several side pockets from the Vulcan and PLCE and Berghus medic pouches all fit the same zips but these are all 12yrs old at least

I like the look of the 45 for a little bergan though and fitting std side pockets

my gear slways looks a little lost in the vulcan these days

ATB

Duncan

 

[kato]

Hi Footzo,
I have got a Snugpak Rocketpak and think it is a very well made bit of kit but be aware it is a short back as its made to wear with belt order pouches.
You could buy a yolk and use the pouches you have got with it for a day sack and when they wear out you could use the yolk with your Snugpak rockets
I bought my Snugpak Rocketpak and Snugpak yolk from this shop>
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/select.asp
great price,good service and speedy delivery.
hope this helps

 

[jayuk]

Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.

Does that sound right?

You are ok - yours will be compatable with the Karrimor Sabre.

Some of the very first prototype bergans/side pouches had their zips configured the other way around but 99% of the olive and dpm bergans/pouches have the correct zip orientation.

I used to have some up-side-down side pouches but it didn't bother me as I owned a matching up-side-down bergan.

 

[Justin Time]

.... as I owned a matching up-side-down bergan.

Did it get lighter the further you walked?

 

[Zammo]

Hi All,

Sorry to drag this up again but:
It's nearly pay day and I was about to push the button on the sabre 45 and went mooching around ebay for a yoke and read this:

"Please note. Thes side pockets are for the earlier model olive bergen and the side pocket zips are upside down relative to the later issue bergens."

It's from this item:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLCE-Olive-tw...itemZ250073107520QQcategoryZ588QQcmdZViewItem

So - panic has once again set in as my bergen is olive and therefore so are my side packs and now I'm worried that the zips will be upside down in relation to the sabres.

Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.

Does that sound right?

Sorry for the questions but the purchase would be mail order and I don't want to foot the bill of returning it.
RocketPak is looking tastier every day!

Cheers All.

Buy from here:

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2215.html

Its cheaper, you can ring them if need be and theres no messing about ending up with ones that don't fit.

 

[jayuk]

Did it get lighter the further you walked?

Ah ......... I had wondered where my sleeping bag got to

On the plus side if I ever got lost I could follow my trail of jettisoned items to find my way back home.

 

[Footzo]

Thanks again All - I promise not to mention it again.

 

[Marts]

Buy from here:

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2215.html

Its cheaper, you can ring them if need be and theres no messing about ending up with ones that don't fit.

Although if you do use them I feel duty bound (well actually I'm just still mad at them ) to point you to this thread

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=7546&highlight=surplus+adventure