RWL-34 Strong Stuff!

[Dave]

I was lucky enough to get my mitts on a Bayley knife recently, and had it out for a few hours this weekend.
Its the first time I've owned a knife made from Superstainless RWL-34.
I was surprised at how strong it is. I was battoning stuff that would definitely have left a chip in my 01 scandi knives. Its very easy to sharpen using the DMT diamond diafold, holds an edge for a long time, and not a bad carver either.
Anyone else use RWL 34?


[video=youtube;qgOLDW15y8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgOLDW15y8M[/video]

[video=youtube;6qVKTpBjX0E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qVKTpBjX0E[/video]

 

[JonathanD]

All my users are RWL now. It is a great steel for my purposes.

 

[Dave]

Well, I knew you had Jon, but I was amazed at how much abuse it can take. Not that I'd ever attack a metal basket with the new knife.

 

[FGYT]

yes RWL is very good ....however the Heat treat needs to be done correctly with Cryo

and the grind geometry needs to be done to suit it ie a full flat with a chunky secondary ie 35 deg ( or good convex ) which makes it easy to sharpen a lot less metal on a thin secondary over a wide scandi

put a fine scandi on it and O1 is a lot better or for stainless 12C27

I saw the barrel Vid a couple of years ago and did try cutting up a baby milk tin a lot thinner than that bin i nhte vid and as it was scandi it did strip the edge off it easily

ATB

Duncan

 

[Dougster]

Last weekend I gralloched, butchered, de headed and de legged a roe with mine, then I butchered it and literally chopped the remains of the carcass up as if with a machete.

Not a mark on my blade. It's RWL, convex, and made by FGYT.

 

[Perrari]

I have no personal experience of either working or using a RWL-34 blade but I do understand that it is pretty impressive stuff. I have been fortunate enough to 'fondle' a Bayley knife once, and it truly is a beautiful tool.
I have done a lot of battoning using 01 Scandi blades & have never experienced them chipping doing it ?? The only experience I have had of an 01 blade chipping is when my mate dropped a knife I had given him a couple of days earlier on some concrete steps in his garden resulting in a small nick in the edge (the edge hit the side of the step directly), needless to say he was gutted. It took a while to hone out, but then was as good as new.
Obviously knifes & concrete dont mix, but I guess a RWL-34 blade would of chipped in the same way if dropped on concrete ?? or maybe not ?? the steel barrel didnt seem to hurt it much, but mild steel is very soft compared to concrete.

I was lucky enough to get my mitts on a Bayley knife recently, and had it out for a few hours this weekend.
Its the first time I've owned a knife made from Superstainless RWL-34.
I was surprised at how strong it is. I was battoning stuff that would definitely have left a chip in my 01 scandi knives. Its very easy to sharpen using the DMT diamond diafold, holds an edge for a long time, and not a bad carver either.
Anyone else use RWL 34?


[video=youtube;qgOLDW15y8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgOLDW15y8M[/video]

[video=youtube;6qVKTpBjX0E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qVKTpBjX0E[/video]

 

[Dave]

I have done a lot of battoning using 01 Scandi blades & have never experienced them chipping doing it ?? The only experience I have had of an 01 blade chipping is when my mate dropped a knife I had given him a couple of days earlier on some concrete steps in his garden resulting in a small nick in the edge (the edge hit the side of the step directly), needless to say he was gutted. It took a while to hone out, but then was as good as new.
Obviously knifes & concrete dont mix, but I guess a RWL-34 blade would of chipped in the same way if dropped on concrete ?? or maybe not ??

I often end up with a few very minute chips in my 01 blades, probably because I do tend to put a very fine edge on them, and dont put a secondary micro bevel on?
Nothing serious, normally can be taken out in 40 minutes with a 800/1200/6000 wetstone combination.
I dont know about the concrete, and am not about to find out...

 

[HillBill]

yes RWL is very good ....however the Heat treat needs to be done correctly with Cryo

It doesn't need cryo to be a good blade. Cryo just allows it to be hardened to 64RC. You can get 62 without cryo. I've been researching this for ages as i've got a knife oven more than suitable for HT RWL. I was going to get a cryo set up, and still will at some point, but after speaking to the manufacturer of the steel on several occaisions, i'm happy to not use it. 64 RC is gonna be a real PITA to sharpen, cant see why someone would want a knife at 64rc personally.

 

[Dave]

yes RWL is very good ....however the Heat treat needs to be done correctly with Cryo

and the grind geometry needs to be done to suit it ie a full flat with a chunky secondary ie 35 deg ( or good convex ) which makes it easy to sharpen a lot less metal on a thin secondary over a wide scandi

put a fine scandi on it and O1 is a lot better or for stainless 12C27

I saw the barrel Vid a couple of years ago and did try cutting up a baby milk tin a lot thinner than that bin i nhte vid and as it was scandi it did strip the edge off it easily

ATB

Duncan

Thats interesting. I'd lke a convex edge, but thats the one thing I cannot sharpen. The knife I got is the Compact Raven. [I can understand why people become attached to them]

I've put a 20 degree edge on the knife.

So do you think it defeats the purpose of having RWL if it has a Scandi edge?

 

[FGYT]

It doesn't need cryo to be a good blade. Cryo just allows it to be hardened to 64RC. You can get 62 without cryo. I've been researching this for ages as i've got a knife oven more than suitable for HT RWL. I was going to get a cryo set up, and still will at some point, but after speaking to the manufacturer of the steel on several occaisions, i'm happy to not use it. 64 RC is gonna be a real PITA to sharpen, cant see why someone would want a knife at 64rc personally.

No you can do it without but it gets the extra hardness by fully converting the Austinite to martinsite if you dont you have retained austinitic grains in your steel which can be quite large giving an edge more likely to chip (again dependent on lots of other variables as well )



I usually spec 60-61 ish and 58-59 on a tougher blade even if the cryo gives a possible 64 But i dont want the RA.

RWL cost a lot of money ( jsut bought a meter of 4mm x 38 that £75 I can get a lot of 52100 bearing steel blades for that ) Not getting the best HT seems a big waste

Heat treat is more than just the end RC you an have 2 blades of the same material and the same RC and one will out perform the other as one has been just Hardened one has been properly Heat Treated

Final Hardness of a blade a bit like Horse power isnt the defining measure of a vehicle ie a Ferrari has more HP than a land rover but which wins over a ploughed field

ATB

Duncan

 

[FGYT]

Thats interesting. I'd lke a convex edge, but thats the one thing I cannot sharpen. The knife I got is the Compact Raven. [I can understand why people become attached to them]

I've put a 20 degree edge on the knife.

So do you think it defeats the purpose of having RWL if it has a Scandi edge?

it dosnt defeate it but you need to get away from a Super steel label and think that means it will do every thing well

as i said you cant drive a Ferrari over a ploughed field regardless of the supercar label


you wont make a large machette out of RWL as a Plain basic carbon spring steel will beat it hands down Carbons steels are tougher/ sharper finer edge than any stainless (a good rule of thumb ) the main thing they bring to the table is the stainless bit

if you have a scandi in stainless then you need to understand its limitations compared to Carbon steels I wouldnt have a high grind zero scandi in RWL it definatly needs a good micro bevel and done use it to carving hard knotty wood etc

ATB

Duncan

 

[Dave]

Last weekend I gralloched, butchered, de headed and de legged a roe with mine, then I butchered it and literally chopped the remains of the carcass up as if with a machete.

Not a mark on my blade. It's RWL, convex, and made by FGYT.

Got a piccie?

 

[HillBill]

Proper heat treatment doesn't have to include cryo, which is deep cooling Its only a knife at the end of the day, not a ferrari If a knife chips then somethings gone wrong somewhere, and even if something is more likely to chip, that doesnt mean its likely to chip in the first place if the grinds are done in the best way for the steel.

I see what your saying though about getting the best HT, i agree with that, and will be getting cryo at some point. Its like 01 in a way, you can cryo it to get a tougher blade, but non cryo'd blades have been more than adequate for a long time. Its better, but not needed.

Suppose it depends what you want the knife to do. And if the buyer wants to pay the extra.

No you can do it without but it gets the extra hardness by fully converting the Austinite to martinsite if you dont you have retained austinitic grains in your steel which can be quite large giving an edge more likely to chip (again dependent on lots of other variables as well )



I usually spec 60-61 ish and 58-59 on a tougher blade even if the cryo gives a possible 64 But i dont want the RA.

RWL cost a lot of money ( jsut bought a meter of 4mm x 38 that £75 I can get a lot of 52100 bearing steel blades for that ) Not getting the best HT seems a big waste

Heat treat is more than just the end RC you an have 2 blades of the same material and the same RC and one will out perform the other as one has been just Hardened one has been properly Heat Treated

Final Hardness of a blade a bit like Horse power isnt the defining measure of a vehicle ie a Ferrari has more HP than a land rover but which wins over a ploughed field

ATB

Duncan

 

[FGYT]

Proper heat treatment doesn't have to include cryo, which is deep cooling Its only a knife at the end of the day, not a ferrari If a knife chips then somethings gone wrong somewhere, and even if something is more likely to chip, that doesnt mean its likely to chip in the first place if the grinds are done in the best way for the steel.

I see what your saying though about getting the best HT, i agree with that, and will be getting cryo at some point. Its like 01 in a way, you can cryo it to get a tougher blade, but non cryo'd blades have been more than adequate for a long time. Its better, but not needed.

Suppose it depends what you want the knife to do. And if the buyer wants to pay the extra.

yes all true

However Cryo is done on carbon tool steels for different reasons and needs a different exposure as O1 doesn't retain Austinite
Tool steels use a Deep Cryo down to -190deg c for long time with a controlled cool and warm up this precipitates out Carbides which are very hard grains this gives a very high ware resistance to the blade the blade has the same hardness and toughness but the carbide bits stop it wearing down so the edge/surface lasts a long time (obviously its also a Bu@@er to re sharpen as well especially on a scandi as its a wide bevel to remove)
this means stamping tools in industry can last 100-400 times longer between resharpening making a massive saving in down time/ regrind costs . as well as prolonging the life of the tool many times

http://www.cryosciencetechnologies.com/documents/cutting_tool_engineering.pdf

if you want a tough blade at he same hardness in Carbon you use a banite HT its a lot easier and cheaper



Stainless cryo for conversion of austinite is only -70deg ish for 20mins to a couple of hrs depending on steel same name different effect

im sure all the makers have been told by the seller you dont need cryo however pretty much every body does use it and for a difficult costly additional process there must be a reason it does nothing to the knife you can see

ATB

Duncan

 

[JonathanD]

I dropped one of mine down a steep scree slope and it literally bounced from rock to rock before skidding to a halt over pebbles 15 metres down into a gully. The edge was slightly flattened and dull in places, but it wasn't chipped or scratched to any extent that a 3M pad couldn't fix cosmetically. That was on one of my full flats. There was a small dink in one of the edges of the spine. The carbon fibre handle was dinked and scratched all over and had lost a chunk from the outer edge of the flared butt.

 

[tamoko]

This knife on video is made by Yasen Nikov.
http://nikovknives.blogspot.ch/

This is a great knife maker, i am lucky owner Yasen new bushcraft knife.

I have two knife from Rob Bayley but prefer to use Yasen knife. Yasen knife have more comfortable handle and nice convex grind. Great for any task, wood and food preparing.
From quality you can see on video.

 

[Dave]

I dropped one of mine down a steep scree slope and it literally bounced from rock to rock before skidding to a halt over pebbles 15 metres down into a gully. The edge was slightly flattened and dull in places, but it wasn't chipped or scratched to any extent that a 3M pad couldn't fix cosmetically. That was on one of my full flats. There was a small dink in one of the edges of the spine. The carbon fibre handle was dinked and scratched all over and had lost a chunk from the outer edge of the flared butt.

Ouch. I'll have to get some of those 3M pads, and maybe some of that micromesh stuff.

This knife on video is made by Yasen Nikov.
http://nikovknives.blogspot.ch/

This is a great knife maker, i am lucky owner Yasen new bushcraft knife.

I have two knife from Rob Bayley but prefer to use Yasen knife. Yasen knife have more comfortable handle and nice convex grind. Great for any task, wood and food preparing.
From quality you can see on video.

Thats a beauty Tamoko

 

[Dougster]

Ouch. I'll have to get some of those 3M pads, and maybe some of that micromesh stuff.



Thats a beauty Tamoko

Micromesh is great stuff. I use it a lot.

Got a piccie?

Sadly not - when I'm doing stuff like this I normally have stuff all over me I don't want in my camera, when Stuey is with me I'll get him to take loads - but what Dunc says is what I listen to, his blades have yet to disappoint so I keep getting them from him.

Rut is in two weeks or so, I'll see how it does then.

 

[Dave]

Yep. Thats what I was after. The opinion of a respected maker. Doesnt have to be a gory photo Dougster. Was just interested in seeing a piccie of the knife. How do you find sharpening a convex edge? Only convex edge I sharpen is my axe with a puck. I would imagine its a bit difficult with a knife?

 

[norca]

love the one on here next to the .45 http://nikovknives.blogspot.ch/