Rope making .40,000 years ago
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I was wondering that….and wondering if the folks who've supposedly worked it out really know how to make rope anyway 
We'd use a crown to ply up a rope evenly, so unless that carving was used as a spreader to keep the single cordages untangled and evenly drawn through, and perhaps to tighten the twist as the cordages (no way could four fibre bundles all be fed so close together unless they're in a roving anyway) I wonder how on earth it works.
Where's bilmop5, Asemery and Seagull ? They're all rope and knot workers.
Actually, thinking on it, hemp and flax can all be worked from a roving and they'd spin up …..but there's no cross plying. If the cordage was twisted S then the whole thing would be S, no Z spun S plyed, I mean.
Hmmm. I think we need a play
I've got a bag of hemp fibre and a bigger one of jute. We could use that.
M
We'd use a crown to ply up a rope evenly, so unless that carving was used as a spreader to keep the single cordages untangled and evenly drawn through, and perhaps to tighten the twist as the cordages (no way could four fibre bundles all be fed so close together unless they're in a roving anyway) I wonder how on earth it works.
Where's bilmop5, Asemery and Seagull ? They're all rope and knot workers.
Actually, thinking on it, hemp and flax can all be worked from a roving and they'd spin up …..but there's no cross plying. If the cordage was twisted S then the whole thing would be S, no Z spun S plyed, I mean.
Hmmm. I think we need a play
I've got a bag of hemp fibre and a bigger one of jute. We could use that.M
Thanks for sharing Toddy i get hypnotized making even small amounts of cordage, i'm sure my brain is releasing weird concoctions of endorphins as i just trance right out as if i'd eaten mescaline or something, i'm just about to go out cycling but when i get back i'm gonna dive in and read that, just thought i'd post in the thread so i'd have less trouble finding it at 3am when i get back
(i'm not a ropemaker) how did people back then came up with this idea and how did the archeologists figure out the artefacts purpose?! i'm not aware of any "" primitive"" people of recent times using a devive like this-- did rope making methods change?!
If the archeologists did get it right and it's for rope making, the carving craftsmanship certainly shows that this is NOT the first one that they ever made.
And it's mammoth ivory as well.
To me it shows also that there was and had been a long-term division of labor so somebody(?) had the time, over generations, to mess with this thing
and get it to work as predicted.
And it's mammoth ivory as well.
To me it shows also that there was and had been a long-term division of labor so somebody(?) had the time, over generations, to mess with this thing
and get it to work as predicted.
I am quite sure they had labour division.
If we look on the stone age societies that remain/ recently remained they have "specialities" they do or did.
I think making stone tools must have been one if the more difficult ones?
The only question I have is what usable plants for fibre making there was this close to the ice border? The climate must have been like in northern Siberia today. Plus it is in a mountanious area.
I am sure there are members of this Forum that can show the archeologist a thing or two about these ancient crafts and arts!
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Fascinating.
But that bottom picture is boggling me, though it may just because it's 1am
The 4 cords are being twisted anti-clockwise, but the individual strands are twisted clockwise.
So just pulling the the individual strands through is enough to twist them, with those spiral cuts?
But that bottom picture is boggling me, though it may just because it's 1am
The 4 cords are being twisted anti-clockwise, but the individual strands are twisted clockwise.
So just pulling the the individual strands through is enough to twist them, with those spiral cuts?
Thanks for sharing this, Toddy!
I was disappointed that the article was so incomplete.
1. What plants do archaeologists think they used?
2. How did they splice in new fibers?
3. How did they keep the rope diameter uniform?
4. How did the tool work?
5. A description of how the tool was used?
The article is intriguing, but left too much to the imagination. Some additional research by the author would have been appreciated.
- Woodsorrel
I was disappointed that the article was so incomplete.
1. What plants do archaeologists think they used?
2. How did they splice in new fibers?
3. How did they keep the rope diameter uniform?
4. How did the tool work?
5. A description of how the tool was used?
The article is intriguing, but left too much to the imagination. Some additional research by the author would have been appreciated.
- Woodsorrel
I believe that we all should make one of these. As carefully carved as we can see from the illustrations.
Next, we all try with what ever fiber we believe that we have available where-ever we live.
Only then can we end the speculation of what and when and where and why.
Then, we all bear down on this puzzle from the corners of the earth.
Hundreds of experiments from all over the place. We all mess about and try.
Suppose that 300 of us each try and 300 of us each report our results?
These cannot replace generations of skills but the archaeologists cannot deny
our collective will to comprehend the tool.
No more talk the talk. I want to carve one from bison femur and use cattail leaf fiber
I'll walk the walk.
Next, we all try with what ever fiber we believe that we have available where-ever we live.
Only then can we end the speculation of what and when and where and why.
Then, we all bear down on this puzzle from the corners of the earth.
Hundreds of experiments from all over the place. We all mess about and try.
Suppose that 300 of us each try and 300 of us each report our results?
These cannot replace generations of skills but the archaeologists cannot deny
our collective will to comprehend the tool.
No more talk the talk. I want to carve one from bison femur and use cattail leaf fiber
I'll walk the walk.
Grasses? But I wonder if the cordage was of hide. Walrus hide ropes favoured for many years. But, there is a question as to why they needed industrial quantities of rope. A grass rope of moderate length, and in my case of moderate performance, is very easy to make by hand as is any other sort of cordage.
More info and videos of them making rope....
https://www.uni-tuebingen.de/en/new...-spezielles-werkzeug-zur-seilherstellung.html
[video=youtube;N1VSNKvzZEM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1VSNKvzZEM&feature=yo utu.be[/video]
[video=youtube;Z5B6ndWjKJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5B6ndWjKJg&feature=youtu.be[/video]
https://www.uni-tuebingen.de/en/new...-spezielles-werkzeug-zur-seilherstellung.html
[video=youtube;N1VSNKvzZEM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1VSNKvzZEM&feature=yo utu.be[/video]
[video=youtube;Z5B6ndWjKJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5B6ndWjKJg&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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Interesting to see it in use. I'd have liked to have seen how they added extra material to keep extending the rope
That second video just shows twisting plant material, that's not rope, the instant the pressure is taken off that will all untwist, that's nothing like the reverse two ply twist we all use to make cord.
To tie up the Paleo woman - maybe 2 feet?
That rope on the video can not have any other use. Soft, fluffy, weak.
That rope on the video can not have any other use. Soft, fluffy, weak.
I refuse to guess. Make some of that rope, in that style, with that fiber source.
Practice and practice to make rope of decent quality, as the paleos must have done.
Test it for strength.
40k BP makes me think that rope might have had some use connected with entrapment-style hunting.
Practice and practice to make rope of decent quality, as the paleos must have done.
Test it for strength.
40k BP makes me think that rope might have had some use connected with entrapment-style hunting.
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