Romany gypsies

[Martyn]

The gypsies are part of the modern world, with its Mercedes Benz box vans pulling 40 foot trailers. With supermarkets and butane stoves. They're not going to shun the convenience of modern technology just so a bunch of townies can gawp and say "aren't they quaint".


K.

Neither are they prepared to pay tax in order to recieve the benefits of a national health service. Which of course, doesnt stop them using it when the need arises.

I find the national health service is a fantastic divining rod for many levels of hypocrisy.

But... we are running perilously close to poly tickles here. We (I include myself) need to be careful.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Neither are they prepared to pay tax in order to recieve the benefits of a national health service. Which of course, doesnt stop them using it when the need arises.

Do you know the original name of that branch of science now known as "economics"?

"Politickal Arithmetick".

The dream of the government is to replace all direct taxation by indirect taxation, i.e. VAT and excise duty.

It is too difficult to run after 20 million individuals for income tax. Far easier to hammer on the doors of Sainsbury, Waitrose and Asda/Walmart.

A few raids here and there, with exemplary punishment, to make sure nobody dares use red diesel in the Mercedes box vans, and Robert's your parent's sibling.

K.

 

[PatrickM]

Interesting post this. Thirty three years ago I had the privilege of staying with some descendants of Romany Gypsies. I was 12 years old at the time and on my first camping trip away from my parents, with a tent that my friends dad had made us from odds and ends of deckchair canvas.

After a days camping, we were set upon by a group of older lads who had spotted our crazy-looking tent, which they destroyed and then proceeded to pinch most of our belongings. In tears, we set off home and on the way met an old man and youth who listened to our tale of woe. They immediately set out to find the lads, but they had disappeared, so they invited us to their camp instead (which we somewhat worriedly accepted.)

An opening in a stretch of gorse revealed two colourful caravans, three dome shaped canvas shelters with chimneys and all sorts of interesting things all around. Anyway, to cut a long story short, we enjoyed their hospitality and kindness for a week, eating from the land and shore. We also went out with the old man to watch him hunt rabbit and pheasant with throwing sticks. We went home with many wondrous tales !

Seeing these and other skills was I think, the starting point of my fascination with living off the land and fulfilling your needs from the natural environment. Indeed, over the years I have stopped whenever I see these people and try and spend time with them, as they have a wealth of bushcraft knowledge, a great deal of which you won't find in any books.

 

[gregorach]

Good points Pat - unfortunately, I guess that generation (and its skills and knowledge) must be pretty much gone by now. Reminds me of an old Ewan MacColl song:

The old ways are changing you cannot deny
The day of the traveler's over
There's nowhere to gang and there's nowhere to bide
So farewell to the life of the rover

 

[PatrickM]

Unfortunately I have to agree, although I occasionally still come across the odd family on the west coast of Scotland. It seems that your song is becoming a reality and bushcraft skills and knowledge are being lost all around the world. But at least there is a revival of interest in this country and with sites like BCUK, the situation can only improve.

 

[ilan]

I think its hard to find true gypsies now living as they did. most of those that you see are lowlifes, travelers etc . I have met a few what i call true decendents they are now settled in a way and if you can get one to talk the tales and skill they know are worth listening to . There is another group who again are not gypsies but sort of "woods people" there use to be some on the outskirts of essex and kent great people of course they new every dodge used to buy logs and wood products from them. they used an old pole lathe to turn stuff on sold teasles and hollywreaths etc once you got to know them the odd rabbit or phesant too !!

 

[stuart f]

I have gypsy blood in me, my great great grandfather was Faa Blyth who was king of the Gypsies in Yetholm and he wore a tin crown. I have seen photos of his inauguration. Apparently the Blyth's are the only Gypsies with blue eyes.

 

[bothyman]

I have gypsy blood in me, my great great grandfather was Faa Blyth who was king of the Gypsies in Yetholm and he wore a tin crown. I have seen photos of his inauguration. Apparently the Blyth's are the only Gypsies with blue eyes.

So are you related to the folks on this website.

>>
>> http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/charles22.html

MickT

 

[stuart f]

So are you related to the folks on this website.

>>
>> http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/charles22.html

MickT

Hi Bothyman, yes thats who i am related too,this is a photo of the inuguration of my great great etc etc grandfather.

 

[bilko]

I realy want to say something but i don't know what to say ( thick tonight )
Patrick and Stuart :You_Rock_
Brilliant!

 

[Spacemonkey]

Well if anyone wants to meet some possible Romanys, then head for the roundabout north of Highworth, near Swindon, as two traditional Romany caravans and their horses have taken root there today. They seem a nice tidy sort of people, not the usual scourge of pikeys that descend at this time of year...

 

[sandbender]

A hard life I suspect; their women folk certainly aged very quickly when I was little. I saw a family every summer for about eight or nine years and the young bride who picked me up and put flowers in my hair became a thin, careworn woman, with too many babies of her own, long before I grew up, and she had been very beautiful.

A hard life indeed, I've just finished reading 'The Horsieman' by Duncan Williamson...

Available from independent local booksellers everywhere (ISBN 978-1841586922).

There is much here that would be of interest to 'bushcrafty' folks, descriptions of shelter building, foraging, hunting, lore and language.

"Duncan Williamson was the son, grandson and great grandson of nomadic tinsmiths, basket makers, pipers and storytellers. In this book, he describes his life as a traveller with verve, candour and intimacy, recounting a childhood spent on the shores of Loch Fyne, work on the small hill farms in the summer, walking with barrows and prams and later with horse and cart, the length and breadth of Scotland. He recalls camping with hundreds of traveller families from the 1940s to the 1960s, his marriage to his cousin, Jeanie Townsley, and all the various traditional skills and arts which must be perfected for a man to maintain his family adequately."The Horsieman" is the story of traditions long vanished - of traveller trades, of building tents, of routes travelled and traditional camping sites, of stories, songs, music and cures which have been the heritage and tradition of travelling people in Scotland through the ages. Set mainly in Argyll, Tayside and all stations in between, Duncan Williamson's story is told with great warmth and humour and in the inimitable style of one Scotland's master storytellers."

Duncan died in 2007, his obituary in 'The Times' can be found here.

 

[Tengu]

I read his book on the seal folk.

My Great Grandfather was a scottish tinker (I share his name, never you mind its a welsh name)

but of course you cant say that in front of the Romanies, can you? what a bunch of snobs!

 

[Humpback]

Sorry to be a bore and at the risk of receiving a curse, can I ask where do these wonderful Romanies of myth and legend put their rubbish items (they must produce some) as I should love to know so that I can dispense with my wheely bin?
Do they bag it up and take it with them as I do when I go camping in the wilds?



I'll get my coat (and home made pegs)
A not at all romantic Alan


PS down my way we call travellers 'tatters' (amongst other expletives).

 

[sam_acw]

In Poland there is little evidence of travelling Romany. Instead you see them in towns selling testers of perfume or begging.
Sadly they've not had the best of times here in the 20th century. Before that the country was much more tolerant but they were among the groups to be used as scapegoats in the 20th century

 

[sandbender]

.......Sorry to be a bore and at the risk of receiving a curse, can I ask where do these wonderful Romanies of myth and legend put their rubbish items (they must produce some)"..."down my way we call travellers 'tatters'......

In Duncan Williamson's book he describes his traveling life between the years 1928 - 58, rubbish disposal isn't covered in detail however their rubbish is placed in a 'cowp' or rubbish tip. The impression given is that very little rubbish is generated this being a less 'disposable' age than the one we live in now, especially in the years after the war where everything was being re-used and recycled.

He also claims that the family 'winter camp' was always to be found in the 'Furnace Wood' by 'Loch Fyne', land owned by the Duke of Argyll, and that the Duke new his father well, both allowing the family to use the wood and also occasionally making use of his fathers 'chiropractic' skills. I think it unlikely that they'd have been as welcome if they had trashed the place.

Non traveling folks are called 'flattie's' which translates as 'dim-witted town dwellers'.

 

[Rhoda]

I have some Romany blood in me, still trying to research the family tree further but it seems that my great great grandparents were gypsies. I am very keen to learn more about their traditions and the skills that they used before the knowledge is lost completely. I wonder if my interest in bushcraft, foraging etc is in my genes then!?!

 

[CLEM]

Sorry to be a bore and at the risk of receiving a curse, can I ask where do these wonderful Romanies of myth and legend put their rubbish items (they must produce some) as I should love to know so that I can dispense with my wheely bin?
Do they bag it up and take it with them as I do when I go camping in the wilds?



I'll get my coat (and home made pegs)
A not at all romantic Alan


PS down my way we call travellers 'tatters' (amongst other expletives).

Well if their like the travelers camp by us,they chuck their rubbish behind the camp in what was a beautifull wood,hundreds and hundreds of tons of it,each and every year the local council has to clear it up,absolute mountains of crap. The tax payer picks up the tab as usual!!

 

[sandbender]

I have some Romany blood in me, still trying to research the family tree further but it seems that my great great grandparents were gypsies. I am very keen to learn more about their traditions and the skills that they used before the knowledge is lost completely. I wonder if my interest in bushcraft, foraging etc is in my genes then!?!

The Duncan Williamson book 'The Horsieman' should be of interest to you.

Additionally this link is for a Russian language site with hundreds of photographs of Romani, the first set are from a famous Hungarian photographer and were taken in the early 1900's.

Enjoy

 

[woodstock]

I think the thread has became a little confused between different cultures the irish tinker, or traveler is indigenous to Ireland and is in no way related to the Roma who originated from India and started a migration across Europe and can be found in most parts of the world today my family traced back to a area near Pakistan/Kashmiri border and were Roma, the dark skin and eyes still turnup today some of my children are dark (and yes I am their dad ) my grandkids are the same