Ridiculous leniency

[HillBill]

As Broch says, when it comes to firearms, its not just the age, but also the calibre of the firearm. A gun will never be antique if the ammunition is still in production. A good example is the Lee Enfield rifle. Mass produced in the pre ww2 years, and the main ww1 rifle. Age dictates it to be antique, but the .303 cartridge is still in production in small quantities, meaning an FAC is required to own even a 100+ year old example.

 

[haptalaon]

Which doesn't apply to antiques.

Seems like a weird exemption to me... is an antique knuckleduster not equally dangerous

 

[Falstaff]

The Rehabilitation course seems to indicate a defence explaination of ignorance or limited capacity.
Can easily happen with some on the autistic spectrum, some are fearful and draw comfort from having something, other get a childish excitement from it and/or their COB takes over and they cannot stop collecting - not like us at all huh?

 

[slowworm]

Seems like a weird exemption to me... is an antique knuckleduster not equally dangerous

I'm just referencing the law. I could have a reasonable go at guessing the reasoning but I would have thought most people would understand.

As for what's dangerous, I'm a firm believer in the items are not dangerous themselves it's what people do with them. Should all knives be banned just because a very small number are used for crime?

 

[Keith_Beef]

Is there a legal definition of `Antique`??

For the purposes of this Schedule, a weapon is an antique if it was manufactured more than 100 years before the date of any offence alleged to have been committed

If you want to collect firearms for which there is still ammunition available, you can have them deactivated, meaning that they can no longer be used.

 

[Broch]

If you want to collect firearms for which there is still ammunition available, you can have them deactivated, meaning that they can no longer be used.

Sadly, deactivation ruins guns these days. I had my grandfather's poaching rifle deactivated - a lovely old Remington Speedmaster .22 short. The amount of weld in the breech and the heat discolouring visible on the outside mean it's far from pretty now

I'm told that things have got even worse recently with the rules applied to allow them to be taken off licences.

 

[Falstaff]

Sadly, deactivation ruins guns these days. I had my grandfather's poaching rifle deactivated - a lovely old Remington Speedmaster .22 short. The amount of weld in the breech and the heat discolouring visible on the outside mean it's far from pretty now

I'm told that things have got even worse recently with the rules applied to allow them to be taken off licences.

Isn't that the kind of the point, to deter deactivators and making scrapping preferable? Not saying that is right, but more the ignorant knee jerk legislators/Govt. reaction and consequent objective/reassurance.

 

[TeeDee]

I have an alternative question - for those with what I may call higher end PCP type air rifles ( although this could also apply to a springer - I've heard some Spanish made , British sold springers came with a 18ft spring direct from factory settings ) - so how many people whom own air rifles of any sort use a Chrono to ensure they are legal?

If one had multiple air rifles ( define multiple as you wish ) and was a definite aficionado or collector I could see investing in a chrono would be a useful move. The more air rifles , the increased chance of one of them sitting over the legal limit.

But if you only have one or two , ( maybe not purchased from a regular shop/internet trader but more a , changed hands off of a forum in a car park somewhere type scenario. ) have you tested ? would you make the effort to get it tested or just act under the belief of good faith that it was and is 'legal' ?

As different countries produce rifles of various poundage settings and as I know most peoples mindset ( if they are a tinkerer ) is eke out as much legal power available so will 'fettle' where they can - the chance of having an overly zingy potentially illegal air rifle seems like something many of us maybe open to.


I'm not sure where the rule of 6ftlbs for airpistols and 12ftlbs for air rifles came from - why those specific ratings - but I know as teenager I coveted stronger springs. I guess the point I'm trying to make is without ensuring a chrono is used on a third party item its possible many of us are falling foul of the legal aspect.

 

[Herman30]

Sadly, deactivation ruins guns these days.

In my country deactivations goes even further. All action has to be welded shut (no moving parts) plus holes bored in the barrel.

 

[TeeDee]

In my country deactivations goes even further. All action has to be welded shut (no moving parts) plus holes bored in the barrel.

Out of interest - what needs to be done , criteria wise , to obtain a firearm in the first place legally? I've always thought of Finland as more " rugged pioneer " so imagine firearm rules were a little more 'USA' as opposed to UK. But I have no actual objective reasoning to think this way - just imagined somewhere that was so raw and rural would have a more " a firearm is just another tool " type mentality and legal system to facilitate that.

 

[Wildgoose]

I have an alternative question - for those with what I may call higher end PCP type air rifles ( although this could also apply to a springer - I've heard some Spanish made , British sold springers came with a 18ft spring direct from factory settings ) - so how many people whom own air rifles of any sort use a Chrono to ensure they are legal?

If one had multiple air rifles ( define multiple as you wish ) and was a definite aficionado or collector I could see investing in a chrono would be a useful move. The more air rifles , the increased chance of one of them sitting over the legal limit.

But if you only have one or two , ( maybe not purchased from a regular shop/internet trader but more a , changed hands off of a forum in a car park somewhere type scenario. ) have you tested ? would you make the effort to get it tested or just act under the belief of good faith that it was and is 'legal' ?

As different countries produce rifles of various poundage settings and as I know most peoples mindset ( if they are a tinkerer ) is eke out as much legal power available so will 'fettle' where they can - the chance of having an overly zingy potentially illegal air rifle seems like something many of us maybe open to.


I'm not sure where the rule of 6ftlbs for airpistols and 12ftlbs for air rifles came from - why those specific ratings - but I know as teenager I coveted stronger springs. I guess the point I'm trying to make is without ensuring a chrono is used on a third party item it’s possible many of us are falling foul of the legal aspect.

From the legal side the law is absolute, possession of an over powered air weapon is an offence, the individual could of course raise a defence of “I didn’t know” etc.

It’s the same for cars or motorbikes with de-restricted pipes or modifications, has anyone ever taken their vehicle for a full check?

Most gun shops will chrono your rifle on a range for a few quid, so it’s worth doing if you are concerned

 

[Broch]

There is an argument that if you have a chrono and any of your air weapons are over the limit you have no defence. I personally don't see the point of 'tuning' a weapon so that it's over the 12ft - for taking squirrel and rabbit at sensible ranges that's perfectly adequate.

 

[MrEd]

Sadly, deactivation ruins guns these days. I had my grandfather's poaching rifle deactivated - a lovely old Remington Speedmaster .22 short. The amount of weld in the breech and the heat discolouring visible on the outside mean it's far from pretty now

I'm told that things have got even worse recently with the rules applied to allow them to be taken off licences.

I have several old deacs (4 various Lee enfields and a webley) I use in museum talks and also just as a ww1 Militaria collector. It is very variable the standard of deactivation, I have 2 that have been done exceptionally neatly - 1 in 2024 (webley) and one about 30years ago. The other 2 are tidy and no visible deactivation clues externally.

However, I have seen lots that look like they have been deactivated ‘bish bash bosh’ style with a grinder and an arc welder. Which have clearly been done for profit rather than preservation (deacs often sell for more than live guns)

 

[Herman30]

Out of interest - what needs to be done , criteria wise , to obtain a firearm in the first place legally?

As far as I know a written aplication has to be made and handed to the police. After that the police will call you for an interview and make a psychological assesment to see if you seem qualified and sane to own a firearm. And the only accepted use is hunting or sports shooting. Absolutly not for self defence porpouse.

If aplying for hunting rifle it is mandatory to have passed a schooling for hunting permit. And membership in a hunting club is a plus but not mandatory. But you have to give a plausible explanatoin where you intend to hunt. And the weapon you aply for must suit hunting, can not apply for an AR-style for hunting.

If you are deemed OK they will give you a buying permit for the gun you aplied for in the written aplication. Without the bying permit given by police no weapons dealer will sell you anything.

For sport shooting I know less so I can´t answer.

For pistol license it´s much stricter after the school shootings we had.
Before you can apply for pistol license you have to be member of a shooting club for two years and regulary go shooting. You have to have a shooting diary in which the range master will make notes when you have been to the range.
After that how you apply for pistol license I do not know.

 

[Herman30]

Double post.

 

[Big Si]

If you shoot air rifles at a competitive level, your gun will be chronoed as a matter of course, if you fail then you're kicked off of the shoot and if it happens frequently you can be banned.

Si

 

[slowworm]

There is an argument that if you have a chrono and any of your air weapons are over the limit you have no defence. I personally don't see the point of 'tuning' a weapon so that it's over the 12ft - for taking squirrel and rabbit at sensible ranges that's perfectly adequate.

I wouldn't agree with that. I think we've had four different chronos on the go at once in our rifle club and the readings differed quite a bit. I certainly wouldn't rely on one.

Then factor in the police can use their own pellets* and what you think is a sub 12 ft-lb rifle can nudge just over.

*With regard to pellets, I did some testing with lube and that did add a few fps. I gather, although not tested it myself, that some heavier pellets can increase ft-lb. My springers like light pellets and I don't lube them these days but am aware that my measurements are only a guide and not a max.

 

[Chris]

I wouldn't agree with that. I think we've had four different chronos on the go at once in our rifle club and the readings differed quite a bit. I certainly wouldn't rely on one.

Then factor in the police can use their own pellets* and what you think is a sub 12 ft-lb rifle can nudge just over.

*With regard to pellets, I did some testing with lube and that did add a few fps. I gather, although not tested it myself, that some heavier pellets can increase ft-lb. My springers like light pellets and I don't lube them these days but am aware that my measurements are only a guide and not a max.

That should absolutely be standardised nationally to use specific pellets.

 

[TeeDee]

There is an argument that if you have a chrono and any of your air weapons are over the limit you have no defence. I personally don't see the point of 'tuning' a weapon so that it's over the 12ft - for taking squirrel and rabbit at sensible ranges that's perfectly adequate.

So - and i'm not directly disagreeing with you - how/why do some European countries have different limits? Are Rabbits tougher in Spain?

Whilst 12ftlbs can take Rabbits and Squirrels why do people whom have Air rifles as FAC rated items with 20/30 ftlbs use them? Just for target shooting? Seems somewhat unlikely.

Maybe they just can't stalk to closer distances..

 

[Herman30]

In my country hunting with air rifle is forbidden no matter how powerfull it might be.