Richard III found.

[British Red]

Old 'Dick the S***' or Richard the turd is found at last. To be honest when you look at it its a fantastic achievement. Go back thirty years and it could not have been done; it would have just led to speculation...science does have its uses after all

The more I think about this the more I think "who cares"?

I would far rather the funding and effort went towards disease cures, energy security. or any manner of things that would improve the lives of ordinary people. Some bones they dug up are probably those of some guy who was probably a child murderer and died hundreds of years ago. Really - why does it matter?

 

[Badger74]

IF it is him, i believe he should be buried with other members of his family, not where the council said he could go as part of an agreement.

Oh, and the House of York/City of York/Yorkshire link is a bit misleading. Up until Richard became Warden of the North Marches (or something), and proved to the area that he wasn't a git, York was very much a hot bed of Lancastrian support. He did turn that around though. Most Yorkist support came from the midlands and south and most Lancastrian support came from Yorkshire and Lancashire.

 

[boatman]

If you must have a reason in your terms Red it matters because it is a multi-disciplinary excercise that could actually be useful in investigating a child murder. Where do you think forensic archaeologists learn their trade?

Then it is useful, among other things, for entertainment value, for intellectual curiosity, to act as a yardstick for other excavations include the kind mentioned above. What a sad world if only the mundane were done. And it is cloud cuckoo thinking that money saved on this would have been redeployed for the other good causes indicated.

Finally, accrued knowledge is never a waste of time.

 

[ged]

We don't know what the knock-on lessons might be. In my view we've clarified some interesting history. This could well shed light on other foggy aspects of the period. It wasn't an especially expensive exercise when you compare it with, say bailing out a bunch of crimials who happened to run a bank.

 

[British Red]

I don't deny its vaguely intersting ged - its just not particularly important or any kind of significant scientific achievement was my point - generally I think someone needs to benefit for that - I don't see any great benefit to the (long dead) person involved or mankind in general here.

 

[demographic]

 

[demographic]

Double post, is there no delete facility on here?

Any reason for that?

 

[rik_uk3]

I don't deny its vaguely interesting ged - its just not particularly important or any kind of significant scientific achievement was my point - generally I think someone needs to benefit for that - I don't see any great benefit to the (long dead) person involved or mankind in general here.

Do you not think its just a nice thing to do? Hone some skills for those involved? Help fill in gaps and inaccuracy in British history? If nothing else do it for fun or do we stop looking back at our history and prove or disprove things? Red, you show a liking for older and perceived happier days/ways and I'm very surprised at your view of this little 'dig'. We do things because we can, whats the point of spending dosh on Mars missions, deep space missions? We do it because we can and somewhere down the line these projects often yield unexpected results. If 'we' had not been and continue to be inquisitive we'd all still be trying to chase down some animal to give or food or maybe tickling a trout to keep the family from starving.

 

[woof]

Fine, York can also pick up the bill for all of Leicester's work then.

That or jog on


Finders Keepers

Lol !

Rob

 

[British Red]

Do you not think its just a nice thing to do? Hone some skills for those involved? Help fill in gaps and inaccuracy in British history? If nothing else do it for fun or do we stop looking back at our history and prove or disprove things? Red, you show a liking for older and perceived happier days/ways and I'm very surprised at your view of this little 'dig'. We do things because we can, whats the point of spending dosh on Mars missions, deep space missions? We do it because we can and somewhere down the line these projects often yield unexpected results. If 'we' had not been and continue to be inquisitive we'd all still be trying to chase down some animal to give or food or maybe tickling a trout to keep the family from starving.

Its a bit of fun Richard sure, just not what I would call "a fantastic achievement". I don't decry it, I just think its mildly interesting. By all acounts the bloke was a child murdering usurper - so being shoved under an NCP car park sounds quite fitting to me. I certainly don't think any public funds should be devoted to the enterprise - let alone the state funeral some are proposing!

 

[rik_uk3]

Its a bit of fun Richard sure, just not what I would call "a fantastic achievement". I don't decry it, I just think its mildly interesting. By all acounts the bloke was a child murdering usurper - so being shoved under an NCP car park sounds quite fitting to me. I certainly don't think any public funds should be devoted to the enterprise - let alone the state funeral some are proposing!

Was he? Remember, history tends to be written by the victor. We look at historical sites from all ages and many contain evidence of far worse deeds so do we stop all that research ? Of course we don't.

 

[British Red]

Nor do I suggest we should halt the research (provided it is privately funded or done on peoples own time) - just that we shouldn't value this bag of old bones - that are of no greater value than the bones I regularly turf up in my paddock - beyond the wellbeing of people who are still alive.

 

[crosslandkelly]

:togo:

 

[boatman]

Only acceptable research of this kind is to be privately funded or in peoples' own time surely this is a joke?

 

[Paul_B]

Hmmm! Ppl seem to take the Tudor propaganda piece that Shakespeare did to please his Tudor monarch as the truth. He was also a hideous hunchback with a withered arm. The skeleton shows a degree of deformity for sure but it was not enough to be seen unless he was naked. He had no withered hand neither.
The earliest known portrait of him was before Shakespeare, but was not contemporary to Richard III, but painted from one or more portraits that was. It shows no deformed person.

That is strike one and two against Tudor propaganda and the popular image of him courtesy of Shakespeare.

For me strike three, and those lies are out, is the fact that he was a good soldier, leader, king and very clever. He was a better king than predecessors like Henry IV. I think it was a real shame he died. I wonder what he'd have been like if on the throne longer.

As for killing those two boys, there's no evidence he did only Shakespeare and Tudor propaganda. Just like the Romans turned the Vandals, Goths and other tribes/cultures into bywords of pointless destruction because they won the day... So did the Tudors.

As for digging him up. A lot more money is spent learning about stone age times. Is that more useful? Iirc stone age skills is talked about on threads on this site. The result of many pounds of research. How is that enriching modern world any more? Any light shed on our history is important. Wish I could remember that quote about only looking forward and something about being blind. It basically says if you don't look back and learn from your past you'll be condemned to repeat last mistakes. I think this is just part of the way to learn about Richard III and the events leading to his crowning as king and death so soon afterwards. I for one has a wish to know the truth and am happy it has been state funded.

 

[Paul_B]

There's research into much more pointless topics like football or football management. Stop that first.

 

[Paul_B]

Sorry but I feel strongly about this research and Richard III. I think it was one real unfair hatchet job on him.

 

[santaman2000]

There's research into much more pointless topics like football or football management. Stop that first.

Aren't those businesses? With the accompanying economic benefit?

 

[Mick w.]

I'm a pro-Richard person historically, and I think he should be buried in York; he didn't have any ties with Leicester apart from being killed there, and let's face it we usually try and bring back fallen soldiers for burial, don't we?!
I know that most of the north originally supported the house of Lancaster, but Richard turned that around, lived in Yorkshire and even established a 'parliament' up here - surely a resounding set of arguments for his return.
As for the funding, maybe a lot of it could be met by public subscription, us Yorkies will just have to dig into our deep pockets, eh? Seems only fair to repay the good burghers of Leicestershire for their hard work...

 

[Paul_B]

Aren't those businesses? With the accompanying economic benefit?

Yes, they are businesses but it doesn't stop courses and research being carried out at British Universities that will be funded by the state to some degree. The economic benefit of these courses are questionable.
If you argue on cash generated then what about the case generated by the interest in these bones and the search for them. Where ever they end up going will no doubt be putting up displays and exhibitions on the search and the King himself. That will attract interest, especially since Shakespeare's Richard III is one of his best plays critically and popular around the world. The character has a lot of interest with people.