Rich Hall and American Indians

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Leshy

Full Member
Jun 14, 2016
2,394
54
Wiltshire
Am I the only one utterly appalled at the casual mentions of horrendous numbers of oil leaks ? Toxic spills right through a continent ?

Someone (s) making a lot of money from the oil, they ought to be replacing and repairing pipelines and equipment as an ongoing process, and paying properly to do it too. I hope they are heavily fined, as they are for polluting watercourses here, and pay for total reparation of the polluted land and waters.
Tough if it eats into the profits.

M
I'm with you on this Toddy. It's a disgrace.

I bet they don't even pay the ( tiny ) fines as they can probably get off on some legal clause/loophole , after all they have armies of lawyers paid by them to get them off easy...

The fines are usually a fraction of the their profits...And I mean a really small fraction. 😬😡

Look at the deepwater horizon BP example from a few years ago ...


It's just disgusting.

As I had said before on a previous post of this thread...

corporate greed is like rust, it never sleeps...
it's the cancer of the planet.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,810
1,028
64
Florida
Am I the only one utterly appalled at the casual mentions of horrendous numbers of oil leaks ? Toxic spills right through a continent ?

Someone (s) making a lot of money from the oil, they ought to be replacing and repairing pipelines and equipment as an ongoing process, and paying properly to do it too. I hope they are heavily fined, as they are for polluting watercourses here, and pay for total reparation of the polluted land and waters.
Tough if it eats into the profits.

M

Umm. They're trying very hard to repair pipelines (replacement being the best repair) Unfortunately protesters slow and/or stop the process considerabley; as does the slow process of getting permits (a process that takes years) Profits? Yeah they make what WOULD be big profits; until you compare it to their expenditures. The average profit margin for an oil drilling company is only 6.1% and the employment of 10s of thousands of people depend on them.




" [h=1]What is the average profit margin for a company in the oil & gas drilling sector?[/h] By Melissa Horton | January 20, 2015 — 9:11 AM EST








A: Investors looking for portfolio diversification through sector-specific funds can find multiple opportunities within the energy industry – and more specifically, companies operating in the oil and gas drilling sector. It is necessary to analyze certain metrics to understand a company’s level of profitability and make informed investment decisions. One of the measures commonly used to determine a company’s profitability is the profit margin.
[h=2]Calculating Profit Margin[/h] Investors can analyze a company’s profit margin or net profit margin by completing a simple calculation that determines revenues. The profit margin of a company is determined by subtracting total expenses from total sales and then dividing that number by total company sales. This profit margin calculation does not take into account common stock dividends, but does include depreciation, taxes and interest expenses. A company’s net profit margin is calculated similarly by subtracting total expenses from total revenue (not sales) and then dividing that number by total revenue. This gives investors deeper insight into how a company is converting its bottom line revenue into profit for shareholders.
[h=2]Oil and Gas Drilling Profit Margin[/h] As of January 2015, the average net profit margin for the oil and gas drilling industry is 6.1%. The industry average takes into account the profit margins of a number of large-, mid- and small-cap companies, including Diamond Offshore Drilling, Inc (NYSE: DO) with a net profit margin of 7.23, Helmerich & Payne, Inc (NYSE: HP) with a net profit margin of 17.12 and PostRock Energy Corporation (NASDAQ: PSTR) with a net profit margin of 28.16.
The net profit margin of a company is one of the most closely tracked metrics in profit analysis and investors can utilize this information for both individual companies and broad sectors to determine whether an investment is suitable."
 
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Leshy

Full Member
Jun 14, 2016
2,394
54
Wiltshire
Still ...


even if Melissa Horton's projection is correct , (which I doubt it's a true representation of the markets) , 6% is still a respectable profit when you're talking billions ....

DAPL
Dakota Access Pipe Line

$ 3.8 billion US dollars is the estimated cost of the whole project , just for Dakota's Bakken pipeline ...

..the one that the Sioux tribe are protesting against.
(Standing Rock protesters).

That's 6% of $ 3.8 billion...

I was never very good at maths , but just half of that (over pessimistic) profit margin would probably feed, school and clothe the poverty ridden children that live on that reservation for years to come ....

http://fortune.com/2016/11/06/dakota-pipeline-native-poverty/



So the sob story of the poor energy corporation really doesn't stick with me...

I understand if these pipelines need replacing and in some cases just redirected , as Brian mentioned in the PNW earthquakes scenario, but their profits are not small . They wouldn't be doing it and spending their money on these projects otherwise , would they?

This paper from the IEEFA clearly shows that 60%of the pipelines are not even being used ...

A page turner 😊

http://ieefa.org/wp-content/uploads...hind-the-Dakota-Access-Pipeline_-NOV-2016.pdf

A very interesting read , all joking aside...

Quote:

The region’s existing pipelines and oil-by-rail facilities, together with local oil refineries, can
handle nearly 2.5 million barrels of Bakken crude throughput per day. Five existing pipelines
can transport more than 760,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd). Two existing regional refineries
can handle 88,000 bpd, and a third planned new regional refinery will take an additional
20,000 bpd by the end of 2018.29 The region’s 21 crude-by-rail terminals can handle 1.5 million
bpd.30
So the region’s oil transport infrastructure is already overbuilt, with some 60 percent of its
capacity currently unutilized.
Energy Transfer Partners CEO Kelcy Warren has been frank in the past about the pipeline
industry’s tendency toward overbuilding, stating, “The pipeline business will overbuild until the
end of time. I mean that’s what competitive people do.”

End quote





"
The rush to build the controversial Dakota Access Pipeline stems largely from the financial
motivations of Energy Transfer Partners, motivations that do not necessarily coincide with the
interests of Bakken oil drillers or with any economic rationale for increased regional pipeline
capacity. The contracts for DAPL were signed in a radically different economic environment
in which Bakken oil production was growing and drilling companies were doing well
financially. The DAPL is a superfluous project being built to preserve the favorable contract
terms that its developers negotiated in 2014."



Excerpts of a very interesting paper ,by the IEEFA ( Institute of Energy Economics and Financial Analysis) , that goes on to analyze the profit margins, the economic viability and the practical usefulness and purpose of such a pipeline....


And , even though the profit margins of such companies are dwindling , that is another matter alltogether ...And not really a reflection of their business acumen .


(see M. King Hubbert's peak oil theory)

Or read this for a more up to date reasoning...

http://www.geo.cornell.edu/eas/energy/the_challenges/peak_oil.html




One thing is certain...

They will not stop , they will ignore the voice and will of the people at all cost , especially now with the President's backing....

https://daplpipelinefacts.com/


If not profit then what would spur such determination?
 
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Adze

Native
Oct 9, 2009
1,874
0
Cumbria
www.adamhughes.net
If you look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_companies_by_revenue

Then add up the solely American oil companies (the ones with the US flag by them) then multiply by the 6% average you get a figure of approaching $44 BILLION in net profit. There's a lot wrong with this approach as it:

- assumes that only US companies have an interest in oil in the USA which we already know to be false.
- assumes that all US companies only made average profit margins in 2015 - Americans are quite good a capitalism so this too is likely erroneous.
- assumes that Thickipedia is correct and that actual revenue recorded was a full and transparent declaration instead of being 'accounted for' - again highly unlikely as the oil companies have been around for a lot longer than Google, Failbook, Apple et al and they've all been in the news for somewhat sharp tax accounting practices in the recent past.

However, it's probably not a bad place to start with the likely minimum net profit made and in terms of whether it's a small profit or not is largely irrelevant as it's a pretty large pile of cash annually. For reference the budget for the EU annually is about €140Billon or a bit less than US$150Billion.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,810
1,028
64
Florida
Still ...


even if Melissa Horton's projection is correct , (which I doubt it's a true representation of the markets) , 6% is still a respectable profit when you're talking billions ....

DAPL
Dakota Access Pipe Line

$ 3.8 billion US dollars is the estimated cost of the whole project , just for Dakota's Bakken pipeline ...

..the one that the Sioux tribe are protesting against.
(Standing Rock protesters).

That's 6% of $ 3.8 billion...

.....The region’s existing pipelines and oil-by-rail facilities, together with local oil refineries, can
handle nearly 2.5 million barrels of Bakken crude throughput per day. Five existing pipelines
can transport more than 760,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd). Two existing regional refineries
can handle 88,000 bpd, and a third planned new regional refinery will take an additional
20,000 bpd by the end of 2018.29 The region’s 21 crude-by-rail terminals can handle 1.5 million
bpd.30
So the region’s oil transport infrastructure is already overbuilt.....

Yep, already overbuilt with very old pipelines. Rail is an option but a more dangerous one. That expense you quoted to build the pipeline is just ONE expense; there are others. And yes, 6% of those expenses is a lot of money. My point is the opposite direction though; all that money ain't really much. When you risk huge amounts of money (in this case billions0 you deserve much, much, much more than a 6% return. And oil investments are never a sure thing; they're ALWAYS a risk of capital.

.....However, it's probably not a bad place to start with the likely minimum net profit made and in terms of whether it's a small profit or not is largely irrelevant as it's a pretty large pile of cash annually. For reference the budget for the EU annually is about €140Billon or a bit less than US$150Billion.

Actually it's the other way around. Whether it's a large pile of money or not is what's COMPLETELY irrelevant. The percentage is EXACTLY what's relevant. If you risk huge amounts of capital, you deserve much bigger profits that 6%
 

Adze

Native
Oct 9, 2009
1,874
0
Cumbria
www.adamhughes.net
Actually it's the other way around. Whether it's a large pile of money or not is what's COMPLETELY irrelevant. The percentage is EXACTLY what's relevant. If you risk huge amounts of capital, you deserve much bigger profits that 6%

Absolute twaddle! The size of the investment is the risk you take, investments can go up as well as down. If, however, you do untold damage to an ecosystem in your business pursuits you DESERVE the bill to clean it up, the more particularly so if the size of the bill is smaller than the actual net profit made from those business pursuits.
 

Leshy

Full Member
Jun 14, 2016
2,394
54
Wiltshire
DAPL
Dakota Access Pipe Line

$ 3.8 billion US dollars is the total estimated cost of the whole project , just for Dakota's Bakken pipeline ...

..the one that the Sioux tribe are protesting against.
(Standing Rock protesters).

That's 6% of $ 3.8 billion...





I was never very good at maths , but just half of that (over pessimistic) profit margin would probably feed, school and clothe the poverty ridden children that live on that reservation for years to come ....


http://fortune.com/2016/11/06/dakota-pipeline-native-poverty/



Please read that article on fortune.com quoted above.

It's not just a brush it aside example , it's real and it affects real lives today.


That's not even to mention the fact that it's the corporation's moral obligation to fork out for the "cleaning" bill if and when it's needed.


Not spend thousands of dollars on lawyers , misinformation agents and false news to "take the heat off" their balls ups ...
...
Like they did in Deepwater Horizon and so many times before....
 
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Leshy

Full Member
Jun 14, 2016
2,394
54
Wiltshire
" Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has."

Margaret Mead
 

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