Ray or Lofty - who's the daddy?

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Tedders

Guest
They both have so much knowledge that I don't it is hard to say. Who would I rather spend a week in the jungle with - Lofty by a mile.

Touching on an earlier post, our inspiration:

I have always wanted to get into the wild from an early age, my parents had no interest what-so-ever so I never realised my dream as a kid. The furthest I got was my tent in the back garden cooking beans (which I loved). I was also given a book for kids by Brian Hildreth, which I loved, and made my first survival tin using the book.

Then my attraction to women and then acid house clubs made me forget about my yearning for the outdoors. In my late teens I started travelling the world, and by my mid 20s I was a hippy drop-out walking about India with a cooking pot and a bed roll. Slightly spaced out I walked alone into the jungle of the western ghat mountains in southern india with a bag of rice. During the next two weeks I began to remember the longing for the wild I'd hidden deep inside. ANd when I ran out of rice, I realised that I really didn't have the first idea of how to survive. I didn't even have a compass or map.

When I came back to civilization I realised the stupidity of what I had just done, the locals thought I was mad, they didn't venture alone in the jungle and they never went in there at night... (due to animals and spirits)... I then made a promise to myself that I would learn the skills I needed to survive and travel through the same area again one day. In the last 10 years I have done and thought about little else. I have also realised danger of what I did back then, but without doing what I did i would never have found the outdoors again.
 

Andy

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Dec 31, 2003
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going back a step. I have sen ray butcher a dear on heros of the telemark but thats about it. When he was coking a rabbit they never once showed the rabbit apart from the tine part that he cut off once it was cooked

PS It looked like chicken
 

jonglow

Member
Sep 29, 2004
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i know this is an old tread but i have just joined and i thought i would just add i have met lofty (he runs a school near me) and he is a dam fine bloke and does know a lot on both subjects (bushcraft/survival) the reason he does more survival is thats what he is paid to teach.
but as for who's the daddy thats down to personal pref both do no harm to the craft :)
 
Having met Lofty, all be it briefly, I can definately agree and say he is a totally nice bloke and really down to earth, but for me personnally, his viewpoint is a bit....maybe too harsh. (Not in any way a critiscm, just a way of looking at how he was trained himself) I remember Jack Hargreave's well and actually met him a couple of times as a sproglet and just loved the stories and the obvious love he had for everything he did. I also remember my Dad taking me down to the woods and showing me stuff and trying to instill a love of the big wide outdoors and how to try and live in harmony with it rather than force it to your will. So for me, it has to be the likes of Bush Tucker Man and off course Ray, who over the last ten years or so has rekindled a love for some of the stuff I had forgotten about. But also, every single person I ever met outdoors, working on places Like Brownsea Island for the Dorset Wildlife Trust and also working for the BTCV as well who have given me little tips or told a story of something they did in their youth just keeps reminding me that the outdoors is a great place to be.
 

Bushmaster

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Oct 17, 2004
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I know it is an old thread but I am a newbie.For me my inspiration was scouting for boys by robert baden powell.Ok there are some thimgs that are quite dated but as a young boy reading about the tenderfoots and adventures in the woods woke up a life long passion in me.For a boy of eight it was all a great adventure.And my ultimate hero........................My Grandad.He was my Jack Hargreeves Taking me all over the lakes and woods in Cumbria ,learning the value of nature of how to work with it rather then to fight against it.
Sniff.........I'm filling up now.I miss the old feller.:cry:
But at least i have taught myson and now my grandson is two I am itching to get him out there.:super:
Geoff.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
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It's a tricky one, Lofty first got me into survival with his SAS Survival Handbook when I was a kid and I made my first survival kit from that. My dad was in the army and so I liked military things from an early age...I have a photo of me aged 3 in 70's brown teddybear pjs with my dad's size 9 boots (complete with the wrap around putties) and beret on!!!!
Having said that Ray has re-awoken my interest in the last few years and so I am equaly a fan of him.
But to me....the daddy of the woods has to be Tom Brown Jr and his "grandfather" Stalking Wolf.... his survival books are great although not as detailed as Ray's or Lofty's but his autobiographical books are a fab read....so much so that I was in New Jersey a few years back and just couldn't help going to see the Pine Barrens he was trained in even though it was a 250 mile round trip from northern NJ were I was staying!!!!
I have to say that the Scouts also helped a lot and gave me somewhere to try out all the things I'd be reading about.

Take it easy all...

Phil.
 

nomade

Need to contact Admin...
Sep 8, 2004
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Sutton (Surrey, UK)
I am also new on the thread which means I haven't yet read everything here (but will do).

Now jus before I come to the topic of "Ray or Lofty?":

Tedders I loved your story, it says a lot about how something deep in you never lets you forget it's there, it is also about being a beginner and doing extraordinary things without realizing you are, and it's only in retrospect, once you are more skilled, you are shocked to discover it was mad and heroic and you learned a lot from it.

I was always told you can't camp/bivouac in India, which is disappointing. You would not have gone to the jungle the way you did had you asked someone for advice. But you would have missed out on the experience...

About Ray and Lofty: Ithink someone (or several people may have) said this here before:

Lofty's career was in the military and his topic is, or at least was at first, how to survive in the wild in circumstances not of your own choice or as a soldier having to be trained for any unpredictable turn of event, including finding himself in the wild with no or minimal gear. Lofty's approach is on the face of things (but it may be only on the face of things) not romantic, or philosophical or about having a great time.

I will continue about Ray in my next post as I have to leave the computer for awhile...talk to you again soon then!
 

nomade

Need to contact Admin...
Sep 8, 2004
125
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Sutton (Surrey, UK)
I am also new on the thread which means I haven't yet read everything here (but will do).

Now jus before I come to the topic of "Ray or Lofty?":

Tedders I loved your story, it says a lot about how something deep in you never lets you forget it's there, it is also about being a beginner and doing extraordinary things without realizing you are, and it's only in retrospect, once you are more skilled, you are shocked to discover it was mad and heroic and you learned a lot from it.

I was always told you can't camp/bivouac in India, which is disappointing. You would not have gone to the jungle the way you did had you asked someone for advice. But you would have missed out on the experience...

About Ray and Lofty: I think someone (or several people may have) said this here before:

Lofty's career was in the military and his topic is, or at least was at first, how to survive in the wild in circumstances not of your own choice or as a soldier having to be trained for any unpredictable turn of events, including finding himself in the wild with no or minimal gear. Lofty's approach is on the face of things (but it may be only on the face of things) not romantic, or philosophical or about having a great time.

Ray has presented in his TV programs survival stories of soldiers in past wars and he is a instructor with the RAF but there is more than just the practicalities of how to survive in his approach: it's about how to connect to nature, be/feel part of it, re-learn our ancestors' long-lost or more recently lost skills, observing wildlife, it branches out to all sorts of other areas of both inner and practical experience.

And although Ray often mentions the possibility of finding yourself in circumstances not of your own choice, his approach is also pretty much about choosing the wild deliberately, as a fulfilling way of life. I am sure Lofty knows about that side of things too and I am sure some in the military do too, but what they teach is just the practicalities, becauswe it's their approach.

Just as I am writing I try to imagine the two of them together in the wild, perhaps in challenging circumstances. I am sure they would both stay on top of things and perform superbly. I think they might be more "Lofty-like" than "Ray-like" both of them. Well...who knows?

Personally I would like to go on a course with both. Same with being on a trip.
 

Abbe Osram

New Member
Nov 8, 2004
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Ginja said:
Keep 'em coming ... especially if you can recommend the names of any other 'gurus' - I'm all ears.

G
Well, I would like to bring to your attention a guy which inspired me greatly 22 years ago when I heard for the first time about survival.
His name is Ruediger Nehberg. He is a german survivalist and humanrights fighter, for 30 years now is he doing one crazy and extreme mission after another. He is 68 years old and is planning to be dropped on his 70th birthday naked into the amazon rainforest without a knife or any kind of survival equipment, from there will he cross the forest on a length of 1500 km.

http://www.ruediger-nehberg.de/frameseite.htm

cheers
Abbe
:chill:
 

Gary

New Member
Apr 17, 2003
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Well if were naming names - Preben Mortissen, ex danish para, he trained Lars Falts original team and so indirectly trained old Mearsy as well as other armies around the world and those on Vildmark too soon!!

He's been in the business since the 60's and has a wicked sense of humour!!