Yeah, Jack was my first memory of the country ways...It's only now though that I really appreciate what my Dad used to force me to watch!
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G
Ginja
Guest
Hi, just wanted to make clear that I had no intention of starting agruments here! And glad to see that none have started, more to the point! Keep it clean, people ...
Clearly, from the posts so far, it kinda depends on who gave you bushcraft/survival 'bug' in the first place - I must admit I started with Lofty, simply because I'm from Hereford and so naturally had an interest (dare I say sense of pride) in the SAS, etc. So for me, in the beginning it was a combination of wanting to be able to survive and live off the land, and to have the physical/mental toughness to 'rough it' in all weathers. Though I appreciate that if you've come through the Woodlore route, you're more likely to appreciate the more craft-based/ancestoral elements of what we all enjoy.
Not trying to state the obvious here, I'm just interested in people's different reasons for wanting to 'go down to the woods', as it were - and I think the old Ray or Lofty debate is a good way of drawing out personal preferences and motivations.
Though I have to say, the comment made about Ray Mear's branded equipment is spot on ... there does seem to be a heck of a lot of people all chomping at the bit to get their hands on a Woodlore knife! And not just because it's a fine piece of kit, if you know what I mean.
Reminds me of when Mick Tyler (Breakaway Survival, Hereford) told of how he survived in the Malayan jungle for 2 years, on and off, relying on nothing but a tempered-steel parang and a roll of gaffer tape. No frills - that always floats my boat!
Just a bit concerned about some of the 'equipment fetishism' that seems to go on, as if a Woodlore knife is somehow better than, say, a Gene-Ingram knife, just because Mr Mears has put his name to it. Sorry - being a bit contentious here (and kind of off-subject), but I do wonder how many people end up forking out on this kit, when they could do just as well with something at a fraction of the price.
Then again, Lofty has his ruddy great machete on sale ... so please excuse me whilst I go and eat my hat.
Keep 'em coming ... especially if you can recommend the names of any other 'gurus' - I'm all ears.
G
Clearly, from the posts so far, it kinda depends on who gave you bushcraft/survival 'bug' in the first place - I must admit I started with Lofty, simply because I'm from Hereford and so naturally had an interest (dare I say sense of pride) in the SAS, etc. So for me, in the beginning it was a combination of wanting to be able to survive and live off the land, and to have the physical/mental toughness to 'rough it' in all weathers. Though I appreciate that if you've come through the Woodlore route, you're more likely to appreciate the more craft-based/ancestoral elements of what we all enjoy.
Not trying to state the obvious here, I'm just interested in people's different reasons for wanting to 'go down to the woods', as it were - and I think the old Ray or Lofty debate is a good way of drawing out personal preferences and motivations.
Though I have to say, the comment made about Ray Mear's branded equipment is spot on ... there does seem to be a heck of a lot of people all chomping at the bit to get their hands on a Woodlore knife! And not just because it's a fine piece of kit, if you know what I mean.
Reminds me of when Mick Tyler (Breakaway Survival, Hereford) told of how he survived in the Malayan jungle for 2 years, on and off, relying on nothing but a tempered-steel parang and a roll of gaffer tape. No frills - that always floats my boat!
Just a bit concerned about some of the 'equipment fetishism' that seems to go on, as if a Woodlore knife is somehow better than, say, a Gene-Ingram knife, just because Mr Mears has put his name to it. Sorry - being a bit contentious here (and kind of off-subject), but I do wonder how many people end up forking out on this kit, when they could do just as well with something at a fraction of the price.
Then again, Lofty has his ruddy great machete on sale ... so please excuse me whilst I go and eat my hat.
Keep 'em coming ... especially if you can recommend the names of any other 'gurus' - I'm all ears.
G
ChrisKavanaugh
Need to contact Admin...
Bushcraft, survival, backpacking or whatever you want to call our often overlapping outdoor pursuits has a history. Baden-Powell's scouting, the writings of Nessmuck, Kephardt, Angier et al laid the groundwork for those who came later. It's a major industry with equipment and a cottage industry with instructors offering their classes, books etc. to a very small market. There has been the inevitable backstabbing, most notably the controversy over Tom Brown's actual training, ironically by people who shouldn't be throwing stones in glass hoochies. A trip to the bookstore will produce dozens of ULTIMATE SURVIVALTEXTS, usually with catchy titles like THE ULTIMATE SURVIVAL TEXT. And of course everyone markets a knife garanteed to butcher a moose, throw up a log cabin and determine low tide for clamming. In the end it's the consumer's choice. You want to be Walter Mitty sweating inside a Ghilly suit or native scout sneaking up on sleeping grizzlys somebody is out there to accomadate your needs. I'm fond of Peter Bigfoot in Arizona 
Tony said:
Eee! Jack Hargreaves!
We're showing our ages now lads.
): I wouldn't sweat it about the kit meisters, that's their bag, doesn't mean you can't do things your way. Ray's making a few bob out of his fame, well I can't say I blame him - make hay whilst sun shines and all that.
I remember watching Les Hiddins (BushTucker Man) when I was younger and think he`s a pretty decent, down to earth bloke, knows his beans :biggthump
Ray and Lofty come from different backgrounds so you get different styles. No ones better than the other IMO.
Ray and Lofty come from different backgrounds so you get different styles. No ones better than the other IMO.
Give me the hereford boy's anyday, Lofty, Brummy Stokes And 'Ginge' Tyler.
Being a survival instructor or running a school to the civilian market was once upon a time the domain of ex speical forces guys like these, with tons of knowledge, experience to back it up and charisma, sadly today is not so much the case, although there is still one or two out there, they are over whelmed with the bushcraft type "fashion" that has gripped the UK, looking good in the right shirt, the right knife, the right DVD collection, the right rucksack etc - horses for course though IMO,
Lofty's my daddy.
Chris
Being a survival instructor or running a school to the civilian market was once upon a time the domain of ex speical forces guys like these, with tons of knowledge, experience to back it up and charisma, sadly today is not so much the case, although there is still one or two out there, they are over whelmed with the bushcraft type "fashion" that has gripped the UK, looking good in the right shirt, the right knife, the right DVD collection, the right rucksack etc - horses for course though IMO,
Lofty's my daddy.
Chris
MagiKelly
Making memories since '67
Respect both but Eddie McGee is the daddy. I remember watching him skin a rabbit on children's TV. Lets see anyone do that now.
Magikelly remember it well - you couldnt do it these days - thought police and the nanny state wont let you
I'm not an officianado on his prog's but has anybody seen Ray skin or butcher on the box? I know he's chopped up the odd fish or deep fried a prawn or two but again proof of the pudding - of course I could be wrong maybe he has but I dont think so.
This isnt a swipe at Ray btw - I think his programmes are great and he has done alot to bring BUSHCRAFT to the public eye all I am merely doing is pointing out that HE - BEING THE LATEST - presenter of such programmes isn't allowed to show such things, or at least the BBC arent. No slur on Ray just on a society that has nothing better to worry about.
I'm not an officianado on his prog's but has anybody seen Ray skin or butcher on the box? I know he's chopped up the odd fish or deep fried a prawn or two but again proof of the pudding - of course I could be wrong maybe he has but I dont think so.
This isnt a swipe at Ray btw - I think his programmes are great and he has done alot to bring BUSHCRAFT to the public eye all I am merely doing is pointing out that HE - BEING THE LATEST - presenter of such programmes isn't allowed to show such things, or at least the BBC arent. No slur on Ray just on a society that has nothing better to worry about.
I have had the pleasure of either meeting and learning from most peoplle on this thread and must say the experience has been great, also Eddie Magees' book " no need to die " was my inspiration.
NOW if the question asked was - modern Survival Gurus or modern Bushcraft gurus - which this thread has really turned into, then I would say - Eddie Magee = Survival and Mors Kachanski = bushcraft, my daddy would then be Eddie Magee, ( sorry Lofty ) the ex paratrooper, but sadly left us now. All our best.
Whatever you choose to call your skills and training, at the end of the day it's a great life skill for undertaking your adventures, whatever and whoever your choice of title or teacher, as the sports brand people say - just do it.
But enjoy it,
Chris
NOW if the question asked was - modern Survival Gurus or modern Bushcraft gurus - which this thread has really turned into, then I would say - Eddie Magee = Survival and Mors Kachanski = bushcraft, my daddy would then be Eddie Magee, ( sorry Lofty ) the ex paratrooper, but sadly left us now. All our best.
Whatever you choose to call your skills and training, at the end of the day it's a great life skill for undertaking your adventures, whatever and whoever your choice of title or teacher, as the sports brand people say - just do it.
But enjoy it,
Chris
I haved watched the survival/bushcraft mentors grow and flourish in the last few years, people who somehow touched on a feeling I had deep inside for as long as I can remember. John Wiseman's teachings come from years in the regiment, lessons learnt/lived day-to-day in a real world where mistakes cost lives. Lofty's charisma is real (like many ex-sf guys I have seen, Eddie Mc Gee included) they have lived what many can only imagine.
Ray Mears is a "green-man" for the millenium, he evokes the spirit of the greenwood. He has researched and learnt skills that have inspired many of us to chase the instict that lies dormant in most of the population to seek harmony and independence in the wild-wood. Many of the skills the Ray preaches can be learnt "off-the-shelf", Ray's base skills can be traced directly to works by Richard Graves (Bushcraft), Mors Kocansnski (Northern Bushcraft), Ellsworth Jaeger (Wildwood Wisdom) and Horace Kephart (Camping & Woodcraft).
My first memories of this magical world are of my step father, whose discreet countryside batism, I realised in later life was not particulaly legal, had a massive impact on my early years. In print my inspiration came from an author called Anthony Greenbank, the author of "Survival for Young People" (I still have my original copy), while not strictly bushcraft it still shaped much of what I believe/live today.
Neil
Ray Mears is a "green-man" for the millenium, he evokes the spirit of the greenwood. He has researched and learnt skills that have inspired many of us to chase the instict that lies dormant in most of the population to seek harmony and independence in the wild-wood. Many of the skills the Ray preaches can be learnt "off-the-shelf", Ray's base skills can be traced directly to works by Richard Graves (Bushcraft), Mors Kocansnski (Northern Bushcraft), Ellsworth Jaeger (Wildwood Wisdom) and Horace Kephart (Camping & Woodcraft).
My first memories of this magical world are of my step father, whose discreet countryside batism, I realised in later life was not particulaly legal, had a massive impact on my early years. In print my inspiration came from an author called Anthony Greenbank, the author of "Survival for Young People" (I still have my original copy), while not strictly bushcraft it still shaped much of what I believe/live today.
Neil
Both these guys have inspired me as have many others. Major ones being Mors Kochnaski, Richard Graves, Nessmuk and Tom Brown jr. BP and Scouting has deffinitly played a part so he is up there as is my own dad.
There have been several others along the way that have tought me valuable lessons in survival and outdoor living Athonio from Wild-Live being an obvious one but I can not forget you guys and BCUK and if BCUK was a person he/she would deffinitly be the daddy because of all the combined knownlodge, wisdom and friendship without it I would not have discovered the most of the names above and the there wisdom or been inspired by the achievements of it's members and their adventures to go and "Just do it" myself.
James :You_Rock_
There have been several others along the way that have tought me valuable lessons in survival and outdoor living Athonio from Wild-Live being an obvious one but I can not forget you guys and BCUK and if BCUK was a person he/she would deffinitly be the daddy because of all the combined knownlodge, wisdom and friendship without it I would not have discovered the most of the names above and the there wisdom or been inspired by the achievements of it's members and their adventures to go and "Just do it" myself.
James :You_Rock_
Neither. As any Dead Ringers listener will tell you, there is only one Daddy - and that's Brian Perkins.
I have a book called something like "Stories of Survival" by Les Hiddens (Aka BTM). It's not a manual in the manner of Lofty or Ray, but rather a collection of the stories that used to run as a thread throughout his series. Interesting in places. Clearly a very knowledgable guy.tomtom said:
ST