Pukka Kit or not?

[UKHaiku]

I'm with Red on this one - except that I think the designer needed to include a klaxon on it, to give the rest of us time to clear to a safe distance...
:theyareon

(p.s.p. (post simultaneous post) - love the link Andy.. That does look pretty ropey doesn't it )

 

[woodstock]

iWOULD HAVE TO SAY NOT

 

[Neil1]

I know it's old fashioned - but what is wrong with a decent, moderatley to small sized knife?
With that and a bit of what used to be called common sense, maybe a little reading and a will to get things done - you can do all these things -without the price tag.
The danger is - folks buy these things, put it in their pack and think they have all bases covered, but its not whats in your pack (or on your belt), its whats in your head and practicing that until you can do it without thinking.
An axe of that size! dry, dead standing wood of the size that that can chop, I could brake with my boot, the bearing block - I can make or find, the sun clock - i wear a watch, the rest I could do with an Leatherman.
Pulling nails out - not seen much of that in bushcraft, the same goes for loosening nuts.
As with all things - Ron Hood knows his stuff - and if you dig thru it all, you will find realy good common sense skills. The art is to read all that these very skilled & knowledgeable guys have to offer and extract what works for you.
Neil

 

[-Switch-]

A quote from their website:

If you have a good pocket knife or multitool and the ATAX... You can do it all.

Yeah, and if you have a good pocket knife or multitool and an ordinary axe you can do it all as well, just for a good few notes less. And with the added bonus of not having to employ the dangerous and questionable method of lashing a sapling to your tool to use it as an axe.

To be honest I could sit here for a good while pulling this tool (and the promotion of it) apart but I'm very tired so I'll spare you the ordeal of reading a long and rambling post.

Suffice to say I won't be buying one.

 

[TAHAWK]

This item is a ... hmmmmmmmmmmm... modification of a tool that's been around for twenty years. I was cozzened into trying the original model gripped in the "axe" mode. Afterwards, my wrist felt like it had struck repeatedly with a bat (either sort of bat ) and I had blisters on the fingers through which the connecting handle (betwixt handle and blade)passed.

Why do they sell? Novelty? Kuellll factor?

The "Tracker" had it's day.

There is the Woodsman's Pal -- still being made.

Maid of all work; master of none.

Gimmick.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Have one multi tool - loose tool = No tool.
More importantly we should be heading away from over reliance on gadgets.
imo

 

[FGYT]

So it does D*mn, even wrapped in pink plastic it's a fixed blade
I wonder if I can somehow remove the knife edge enough to make it okay. I think it's the only bit of the tool I haven't used, the scissors are more useful.

cheers,
Toddy

do scissors qualify for the S139 exemption ??
:sulkoff: ill get my coat


an y way i agree with Red why not Try thinkin out side the box its close to an Ulu which many feel a great ancent bush tool

ATB

Duncan

 

[-Switch-]

edit ... But the guy tried...

edit

Red

Yeah, but he didn't have to try.

He's basically taken an axe, lopped off the handle and given it a lot of silly features that, with a little knowledge, can be made completely redundant.

The amount of time it would take to learn how to use this tool properly could be taken up learning how to use the environment properly, with the same outcome.
In fact no, it wouldn't be the same outcome, it would be better because you wouldn't be carrying around that dangerous and uncomfortable weapon, and you could then substitute it for a purpose-built cutting tool which would do the job better and in a safer manner.

 

[Toddy]

I don't think it's a fair comparison with an Ulu. An Ulu is a precision tool with a fine edge intended for neat butchery, as a cooks knife and sewing, occasionally as a snow knife, not chopping down trees or howking out nails or hammering. It's a fine, sharp blade, even made from slate or copper.

I still think the atax just looks like brute force and ignorance compounded with a bad dose of Klingon...........but that's just my opinion.

cheers.
Toddy

 

[British Red]

Yeah, but he didn't have to try.

True. As I said in my post I'm not about to buy one. BUT, I applaud people who attempt to innovate. I like the idea of human inegenuity. So "one tool does it all" is a bad idea? Well, I really like my Swiss Army knife. I find the small saw frequently handy, I like the tweezers when I get a splinter, the scissors are handy and the bottle opener works (or so I'm told).

I'm glad Tim Leatherman had a stab at it too. My Xti has done lots of tough jobs.

Is this tool in that league? Nope. not even a bit. My point though is there is nothing inherantly wrong with "multi tools", nor is there any harm (indeed I see a benefit) in taking a good hard look at things and wondering if they can't be improved. I like some traditional gear - my handmade knives and axes. I like some natural materials - wool and Ventile for sure.

I also like the Vibram soles on my boots, the dry bags inside my pack and indeed the pack itself is vastly superior to the old "external framed" rucksacks I used to use (in the days before the padded hip belt).

This guy had a shot - he didn't hit the Bullseye, but long may people try to improve things. Every now and again you get a pair of Muck Boots instead of a Welly. Thatmakes the misses worthwhile in my book,

Traditions a fine thing but so is the spirit of invention and ingenuity

Red

 

[-Switch-]

edit..

Traditions a fine thing but so is the spirit of invention and ingenuity

Red

You're absolutely right, I can't disagree with that. And, thinking about it, my opinion is a fairly weak one as I haven't used the tool so can't properly comment on it.

I think my problem is with the marketing of the tool, rather than the ideas and innovative processes behind it. I've been stung by over zealous marketing before and it's not a nice experiance.

I personally don't think there is a 'one tool for every job' nor will there ever be.
The performance and versatility we would require from a tool would be impossible to fit into a managable package. Multi-tools for small tasks are one thing but when you progress to the larger tasks as well you need more than one tool. I'm all for innovation but I think the makers of these tools are on to a lost cause.

Knowledge, preperation and experiance will always count for more than a fancy 'all in one' tool.

 

[Draven]

True. As I said in my post I'm not about to buy one. BUT, I applaud people who attempt to innovate. I like the idea of human inegenuity. So "one tool does it all" is a bad idea? Well, I really like my Swiss Army knife. I find the small saw frequently handy, I like the......
......... book,

Traditions a fine thing but so is the spirit of invention and ingenuity

Red

I agree, to an extent. But multitools are really in a different league - things like the SAK are literally multiple seperate tools in one package - not a single tool that claims to do all these jobs. I know that you've said that you don't personally like the tool, I just figured I'd make that differentiation

Personally, I did think of the Ulu somewhat when I saw it, though I agree with Toddy that an Ulu is considerably finer and more precise than the ATAX - similarities in profile aside, though, the chunkiness and poor ergonomics of the ATAX make it seem, to me, that it would be completely ill-suited to be any kind of Ulu replacement.

The idea of lashing it to a branch and trying to fell trees also seems ludicrous to me, as does the slingshot, inclinometer, sundial - well, I'm sure you can gather my opinion on the rest.

Personally, I think the ergonomics are horrible as I stated, and I really can't think of any possible reason to hold it the way it is intended to be held unless you intend to cut things by punching them. I would like to try it though, just to see if I still think the same way afterwards.

As Red said, it's nice to see ingenuity, and it's clear a lot of thought went into it - though I think that it was either the wrong kind, from the wrong person or just not enough. I think that tradition does tend to pan out pretty well as far as knife shapes go, even if not with everything else.

My favourite multitool is a solid fixed-bladed Scandi - fits into a neat little package, and a good days carving will get you a set of cutlery, a chopping board, a shelter and pretty much anything else you can make out of wood, short of a longboat. And, I must admit, there's many a scrape and ding on the pommel of my Clipper from opening beer bottles

 

[Jared]

I'm all for people coming up with new ideas. But like after the first prototypes, surely should have gotten some feedback and realised its was a poor product.
If the inventor did get poor reviews of the prototypes, and chose to ignore them, then hes a fool.

Just got reminded of http://www.outdooridiots.com/features/200709/multifool/multifool.asp

 

[primitiveliver]

I am a member of the Forum the Ron Hood runs and I can safely say people who own the Atax (not me) really seam to like them lot. Have said that in general the approach to "brushcraft" in the states is a bit different. :BlueTeamE

 

[UKHaiku]

I am a member of the Forum the Ron Hood runs and I can safely say people who own the Atax (not me) really seam to like them lot. Have said that in general the approach to "brushcraft" in the states is a bit different. :BlueTeamE

In what way is it different?

 

[BorderReiver]

Okay, I'm going to buck the trend.

Good on the inventor! I like to see people thinking about problems, trying to solve them, being innovative.

My perceptions have changed a LOT since designing a few tools myself. Its hard. Would I buy this tool? Probably not. But someone, somewhere has tried to create something "new" something "better". 99% of such things fail - my own humble efforts ( the PFK etc.) may never be world beaters. But the guy tried.

Good luck to him

Red

I hate to disagree with such an accomplished designer of tools (NO sarcasm intended) but I think this sort of thing is a touch juvenile and shows that the guy doesn't have the background experience to realise his design would hinder rather than help.

Just my opinion.

 

[British Red]

UKHaiku,

I agree that the philosophy in the UK is different.

There seem to be a lot of sacred cows here. Knives are a good example. Got to be a 4" scandy seemed to be the rule for a long time. I have often seen an attitude of "big knives are silly and ramboish". I'm glad to see now that wiser attitudes are starting to prevail - I've heard many a wise head discussing how useful a tool a Leuku is and how much lighter than an axe. Many favour a bill hook (which is a big knife when you come down to it). I like a good belt knife but for many tasks a bigger knife rocks (anyone else notice RM use his parang to carve a wild boar roast?).

I don't know why its that way over here - but it is. I've heard people disparage the use of tomahawks over axes. ?????? Its just a variety of axe and you don't have to carry the helve with you. Indeed RM advises their use in his early books.

The US seem to be less bound by "rules" and "traditions". Its an attitude I find refreshing. Sure that means that some mistakes are made - but there is an attitude of open mindedness to new ideas or alternative approaches that I enjoy

Red

 

[rancid badger]

I still think the atax just looks like brute force and ignorance compounded with a bad dose of Klingon...........but that's just my opinion.

cheers.
Toddy[/QUOTE]

That really does sum it up beautifully, it looks "hard" and "macho"
brilliant "Klingon" reference.
in all honesty, it definitely looks dangerous to use-never mind the poor blokes knuckles, he could have done that any number of ways.
anyway
regards
R.B.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

I remember seeing in an old survival mag (1980 ish)
An Axe head with a coarse thread so you could make your own handle it was a good looking design. Iv googled but cant find any thing similar.

 

[Graham_S]

From a legal standpoint, it looks like it would be classified as a push dagger, so would be illegal in the UK.
from a practical standpoint, It looks like a solution looking for a problem.
I don't think it would be very user friendly.
That said, I'd like to try it for myself to see what it's like. I can't see it being useful though
Most of the "useful features" I have something better elsewhere, or I can make them with other tools

Now though, I'm off out to look for a piece of slate to make an Ulu