Potential ban to wild camping on Dartmoor.

gibson 175

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Apr 9, 2022
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Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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My assessment is slightly different; a lot of the areas not shown as permissible weren't before because they're farmland (if my memory of the park is sound - but it's a very long time since I last stomped the area). Most of the Forest and the Southern moors are available.

I think the events of the last few years will make most landowners say 'actually, what are my legal rights to evict these yobs?' and that is what these people have done. We now know there was only a presumption of legal permission; on that basis negotiation can start.

However, a mass trespass, which is still going ahead, whilst negotiation is ongoing, is just going against all reasonable thinking logic IMO.
 

Ystranc

Settler
May 24, 2019
535
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Powys, Wales
As far as I understand there is now a two tier system where some land now requires prior permission and other land, shown on the map is still free to camp on without permission. The permission will dependent on accepting the leave no trace rule and letting the landowners know who you are. Larger events like DofE and Ten Tors will go ahead as planned.
 
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nigelp

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Jul 4, 2006
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As far as I understand there is now a two tier system where some land now requires prior permission and other land, shown on the map is still free to camp on without permission. The permission will dependent on accepting the leave no trace rule and letting the landowners know who you are. Larger events like DofE and Ten Tors will go ahead as planned.
Where is that stated?
 

nigelp

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My assessment is slightly different; a lot of the areas not shown as permissible weren't before because they're farmland (if my memory of the park is sound - but it's a very long time since I last stomped the area). Most of the Forest and the Southern moors are available.
If you look at the two maps only about 40% of what was available before is now. Most of the areas before were rough moorland or pasture - all that has changed is that less of the moor is now available. Many folk didn’t realise that wild camping was not allowed anywhere on Dartmoor - there was always a map and I closed land and some commons were not included.
Most of the north moor land is the foreign range and has limited access also.
 

nigelp

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I think the events of the last few years will make most landowners say 'actually, what are my legal rights to evict these yobs?' and that is what these people have done. We now know there was only a presumption of legal permission; on that basis negotiation can start.
Fly campers were dealt with and some area of the ‘map’ were excluded in 2020/21 because they were too accessible. Genuine back pack wild campers leave no trace and have huge amounts of respect for the moor and the folk that live and work there.
The presumption was because folk had done so for 30/40 years.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Genuine back pack wild campers leave no trace and have huge amounts of respect for the moor and the folk that live and work there.
Some do, some are litter louts leaving human faeces out on the open along with food wrappers, empty gas canisters and more. I've even witnessed two of them deliberately disturbing a drift. Their excuse when told off was "well how were we to know what you were doing?" :rolleyes:
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
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Some do, some are litter louts leaving human faeces out on the open along with food wrappers, empty gas canisters and more. I've even witnessed two of them deliberately disturbing a drift. Their excuse when told off was "well how were we to know what you were doing?" :rolleyes:
Educate me - what’s a drift? (I suspect googling that would give me the wrong result)
 
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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Educate me - what’s a drift? (I suspect googling that would give me the wrong result)
An Autumn roundup of the ponies. All the ponies belong to someone and the commoners get together to round them up. They are put into a pound and their owners collect them and the new foals. They get health checked, the foals weaned, some are sold off the moor to manage numbers to sustainable levels etc. Its a huge effort and highly complex to herd large numbers of ponies over such an open area.
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
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Aylesbury
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An Autumn roundup of the ponies. All the ponies belong to someone and the commoners get together to round them up. They are put into a pound and their owners collect them and the new foals. They get health checked, the foals weaned, some are sold off the moor to manage numbers to sustainable levels etc. Its a huge effort and highly complex to herd large numbers of ponies over such an open area.

Thanks!

I am more educated. :D
 

nigelp

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Some do, some are litter louts leaving human faeces out on the open along with food wrappers, empty gas canisters and more. I've even witnessed two of them deliberately disturbing a drift. Their excuse when told off was "well how were we to know what you were doing?" :rolleyes:
Sorry. Should have said the vast majority or most. Always exceptions to things. In the same way the majority or most landowners don’t deliberately obstruct public rights of way, or remove signage and put barb wire across entrances. The vast majority of landowners don’t pollute watercourses with effluent and pig slurry. The vast majority don’t burn Add Blue containers in large barrels and allow toxic fumes and forever chemicals to leach into the soil.
Those are some of things I’ve personally seen out in the countryside last year.
However I know most landowners are diligent and conscientious and care about the places they call home; and most back pack campers and wild campers share the same conscientious attitude.
Both can be great ambassadors for what they do and share the same values to enjoy and respect the countryside.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,140
Mercia
Sorry. Should have said the vast majority or most. Always exceptions to things. In the same way the majority or most landowners don’t deliberately obstruct public rights of way, or remove signage and put barb wire across entrances. The vast majority of landowners don’t pollute watercourses with effluent and pig slurry. The vast majority don’t burn Add Blue containers in large barrels and allow toxic fumes and forever chemicals to leach into the soil.
Those are some of things I’ve personally seen out in the countryside last year.
However I know most landowners are diligent and conscientious and care about the places they call home; and most back pack campers and wild campers share the same conscientious attitude.
Both can be great ambassadors for what they do and share the same values to enjoy and respect the countryside.
Yup there's good and bad in all groups. For me it all boils down to attitude. I genuinely believe that those who treat landowners with respect and courtesy will be amazed at what they get back. I've been given permission to fish, walk, photograph, forage, camp, shoot and drive in places where I've no legal "entitlement" to be. But we've righted backed sheep, brought ice creams to guys cutting cabbage, done free pest control, loaned chainsaws, provided purple spray, given a starter chicken flock to a farmers son and helped with fly strike. Most landowners I know, if given help or shown kindness and courtesy rather than entitlement & rudeness bend over backwards to repay in kind.
 
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Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
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I think what you have to watch out for is the legal right of way footpaths and bridleways that go across the private lands, as no doubt you are all aware that a new map is being constructed and those that are not registered as footpaths and bridleways by 2026, will lose the right of way on these paths.
Just as the rich and powerful find ways of avoiding paying taxes, they will find ways of destroying peoples rights.
It is about time people demanded the right to roam, once the parks stop paying these landowners, through lack of funds etc, we will all be paying to roam, and lets face it, landowners can ask for such a high fee that we will be priced out of our National Parks.

credit where it is due, didn't the DNPA arrange this deal with the landowners quickly. less than a week after the court decision, and they haven't even been given the funds by DEFRA yet......??????
 
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Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
I think what you have to watch out for is the legal right of way footpaths and bridleways that go across the private lands, as no doubt you are all aware that a new map is being constructed and those that are not registered as footpaths and bridleways by 2026, will lose the right of way on these paths.
Just as the rich and powerful find ways of avoiding paying taxes, they will find ways of destroying peoples rights.
It is about time people demanded the right to roam, once the parks stop paying these landowners, through lack of funds etc, we will all be paying to roam, and lets face it, landowners can ask for such a high fee that we will be priced out of our National Parks.

credit where it is due, didn't the DNPA arrange this deal with the landowners quickly. less than a week after the court decision, and they haven't even been given the funds by DEFRA yet......??????

That isn't quite the full story on that either. The 2026 date was to record footpaths not yet registered as rights of way. Most of those paths are between farms and never were used by the public; the farm workers used them to get from job to job. Now, paths that go straight into and through private property are being listed by people that think they have a 'right' just because there's a dotted line on a map! The 2026 date has been put back because there are too many submissions for the local authorities to cope with :(

Those of us that live amongst the paths use them anyway because we are walking between neighbours, taking favours, checking on health, delivering wrongly delivered parcels, going to help with a task. I'm not worried, the local council just doesn't have enough money to keep existing rights of way open let alone deal with opening up the unused paths and, what money they have, should be spent on schools, care homes ....

If people want to use these forgotten paths, put some money in a collection box!

Remember, in life, there's always a third truth. To find that you have to walk in both pairs of shoes. Here's another take on it:

 
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