point of a survival kit?

[magicaldr]

Especially in the UK? A 'switched on' hill walker will take precautions and their 'survival' kit is the daysack and contents and clothing system they are wearing. Survival preperations start with knowing when and when not to go for the adventure weather forecast snow conditions etc followed by giving good clear intentions as to where they are going and an expected time back to a responsible person. If things go tit's up ( sprained ankle, loss of route, benightment etc)then they have kit to keep them warm and dry ( or at least alive) for the most part and when they become overdue the responsible person gets worried and alerts the emergency services and the clear intentions plan swings into action. What's unlikely to happen is the need to dip into a survival tin for kit to: Improvise shelter, snare rabbits, navigate with a button compass use a condom for water collection etc...

I think that's the point, at least to me of the tin. If I had time to plan everything I would never need it. Its when things go off plan it may save you. Take the canoe blokes, with a tin containing waterproofed matches always in their jacket they would have got a fire going. Without it, on the wrong side of the river in the dark they could have died.

I agree with the other comments as well, that the peeps who carry a knife, matches, etc everywhere in essence have a survival tin anyway. Its just where they store it I find it easier to ensure I have 1 item in my pocket 24/7, and know all the little helpers are with me than have pocket full of bits, and find the matches were the 1 bit I left behind that day it went belly up.

I think everything in my tin has a chance of being used, or is so small what the heck (i.e. fishing kit). Also for now its a tin, bit of nostalga there, in future it may be some form of soft roll pack or similar that moulds better with a jacket where it would always live.

 

[Chinkapin]

I may have been somewhat misunderstood on my earlier post. Let me clarify. What I'm saying is that if you are in any way shape or form, going to put yourself in harm's way, you should have some bare minimum of "survival" kit. This kit, as has been stated already, by others, should be tailored insofar as possible to the area/risk.

The key parts of it should be on your person. If the two young men (they were college men) had been in possession of the most fantastic surival kit in the world, and it had been abandoned with the canoe, it wouldn't have done them a bit of good.

If just one of them had possession of a lighter/matchsafe/firesteel, they would have been alright.

I fully understand that when hiking, the kit could be in your backpack and not on your person. I also understand that in the U.K. a phone and some cash/credit card would be sufficient for most (but not all) areas.

I just checked and discovered that the U.K. has approx. 3000 deaths a year due to hypothermia. The largest group of hypothermia victims had been involved in an accident of some type.

This incident that I described above as happening on our farm here in the U.S. could just as easily have played out in the U.K. and apparently does with quite some regularity.

 

[Doc]

I just checked and discovered that the U.K. has approx. 3000 deaths a year due to hypothermia. The largest group of hypothermia victims had been involved in an accident of some type.

I'm not certain of the accuracy of this figure. I thought it was rather high - I've issued hundreds of death certificates and have yet to state hypothermia as a cause of death. So I looked into it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/medical_notes/276284.stm
The normally reliable BBC states there are 'estimated' 30 000 deaths a year in the UK from hypothermia. I cannot believe this. It is true that death rates go up in winter, and the excess winter mortality may well be in the tens of thousands, but very few of these deaths are from hypothermia.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/hsq/HSQ2hypothermia.pdf
These are official statistics derived from death certificates. In England and Wales in 1997 there were 357 deaths which listed hypothermia on the death certificate (not necessarily as a main cause). About four fifths of these were in the over 60s.

 

[jenks]

As counterpoint to the discussion, would anyone venture on an expedition, whether a LDP, mountain or kayak/canoe trip with their entire kit loaded into a single drybag or daysack? I expect the obvious answer to even the newest outdoor novice would be no. Small or essential items would be stored about the person to allow immediate access and for convenience.

The PSK/survival tin approach as I recall was to have these items compactly stored in their container to remain undamaged and accessible until the situation dictated that it be opened and the contents distributed around the body. I was also taught that each piece of equipment selected should have more than one potential application and that no piece of equipment, with the exception of fire lighting (at least 2 different means), is duplicated. I would question the competence of an individual if he or she did not have of some of these classics in their pockets while enjoying the great outdoors.

I concede that the contents of any survival equipment package is relevant to the environment, but in military applications (the origin of the concept and practice), this is not acceptable nor feasible due to the global nature of certain military operations. Therefore the retention of this practice continues in the appropriate circles, although it has almost mythological status outside of them.

Yes I do have a PSK somewhere, sealed in its tin, but I don't carry it when the dogs are taking me for a walk in the woods.

 

[Hetzen]

I don't know. I guess the tobacco'd tinned PSK has a social stigma attached to it. Lord knows why. As possibly everyone on this thread has stated, it's a useful mental exercise if nothing else. Probably more to do with the word 'survival' in the phrase PSK. So, people like to call it something else, like 'possibles' or what ever. They still get tied up to the point of it supposidly going to save your life. Well maybe it could. Chances are is that it's more likely going to deal with minor inconveniences than anything else. And I'd rather lug a small box about over a fully laden rucksack

I guess anyone can laugh at someone carrying such items in their pocket, they often do. That in my limited experience, has been the initial reaction. But actually it soon turns into a bit of a conversation peice as you explain the varied uses of a wrapped up lillet tampon, apart from the obvious that misses got caught short, whilst you carry on fixing what ever reason you pulled the tin out for.

 

[Native Nathan]

I used to have a baccky tin survival kit that I made myself with all sorts of kit like the fishing hooks, ferro rod and striker, lens, puritabs, button compass, snare wire etc,

Carried it for over 10 years when ever I went out of the city, .... I never used it once.

I do carry and EDC Kit (Every Day Carry) now, every time I leave the house.

It consists of:
A Letherman Supertool
A LMF Military Ferro Rod & Striker
A Small tin of Vasiline
3 Cotton wool balls
A Energizer LED Keyring Torch
A Space Blanket
A Credit card size magnifing glass
A Mouth to Mouth Face shield
2 coupons for a free hot drinks from Mcdonalds
80pence In 20p coins
A Bic Lighter
A List of all the contacts in my mobile phone
and my mobile phone.

Like I said I carry this when ever I leave the house.
Some may say this seems like a lot but it is spread about my person like this:

Rear Right Butt Pocket - Space Blanket
Rear Left Butt Pocket - Wallet containing:
A Credit card size magnifing glass
A Mouth to Mouth Face shield
2 coupons for a free hot drinks from McDonalds
A List of all the contacts in my mobile phone
I Clip the A Energizer LED Keyring Torch to my Left Front Belt Loop
I have the A Letherman Super tool on my belt to my right
I also have a little miniature Rucksack that slide on to my belt (Its only about 10 x 8 x 3 cms) in which I keep:
A LMF Military Ferro Rod & Striker
A Small tin of Vaseline
3 Cotton wool balls
80pence In 20p coins

My Mobile Phone goes in my left front pocket and my Bic Lighter goes in my front right pocket

Figured the worst thing that could happen is the weather changes and starts raining heavily or snowing with icy cold sleet., whist I'm out with my young kids.

I can then wrap us in the space blanket to keep us dry, go to a payphone if I have no signal or battery, phone some one to pick us up, and have a hot drink in Mcdonalds while we wait.

Or worst case take cover under a big tree wrap us in the space blanket, build a small scout fire between our feet with the lighter and cotton balls and Vaseline, and the Vaseline also aids your lips.....

 

[Walks with dogs]

Figured the worst thing that could happen is the weather changes and starts raining heavily or snowing with icy cold sleet., whist I'm out with my young kids.

I can then wrap us in the space blanket to keep us dry, go to a payphone if I have no signal or battery, phone some one to pick us up, and have a hot drink in Mcdonalds while we wait.

.

My favourite post in the thread!

 

[Chinkapin]

Doc: You might find this article interesting as it quotes a lot of statistics from the U.K. Also, there are some interesting comments about failure to diagnose hypothermia due primarily to the absence of a "low reading thermometer."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Or...age&q=failure to diagnose hypothermia&f=false

Doc, I would be interested in hearing your comments on "low reading thermometers." Something else I'm curious about, is when someone's body is found, say in a cold house, or even out in the street, is it possible to differentiate between hypothermia, and say, a heart attack? I guess what I'm trying to say, is if a person got so cold that their heart stopped beating, wouldn't that look like a heart attack?

Thanks,