Planting with the Moon Phases

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wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
0
Lincoln
It's all the Flying Spaghetti Monster everything lives and grows by the grace of His Noodliness. Quantum mechanics tells us that all possibilities exist simultaneously until foreclosed by inconsistent observations, so I cannot be proven wrong.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
Not much of a thinker are you? More of a "i'll let others think and i'll then demand proof of their thinking" type. Bet your a good reader though :rolleyes:

No where did i mention tidal strength, you are just assuming that is what i meant.

All life is energy in whatever form it takes, physical form is a representation of that energy. With plants they turn sunlight into energy/mass through photosynthesis. That energy is then directed where the plant needs to grow. Keeping up so far? Now the grower has the ability to direct that energy where it is needed by pruning. This is done to keep growth vigorous, and the plant producing.

Now the rise and fall effect that is created by the moon, or sun and moon if you prefer, dictates where the plant applies that energy. When the pull is strong ( the gravitaional pull that causes a high tide) the energy expended in top growth, when it is low at low tides the plant energy is expended in growth low in the plant, as in roots.

Darwin was the first to point out that plants grow at night not during the day. During the day they are resting and gathering energy.

Now as far as i am aware science has not tested growth spurts in conjunction with moon phase. So you saying it doesnt is a load of hot air. You don't know, its as simple as that. And in all fairness i don't "know" either. But i have been observing and recording it all year, which puts me in a far more knowledgeable position than yourself

You misunderstand me mate. I dont have a problem with science. I have a problem with know it alls like yourself who think that because science doent have an answer then neither does anyone else. Well guess what pal, science at one point never had any answers. It has the answers it has through experiments and things like that. If science could speak and you asked it about something not yet tried or tested it would answer "unknown at this time" Yet here you are saying NO when in fact you dont have the first clue about the subject at all.

Ever grown anything?

You did talk about tidal strength. Let me draw your attention to this bit of nonsense:-

"You will find that they are ready mainly when the moon is in the ascent. Its the gravitational pull drawing the energy/moisture up through the plant that forces them to ripen. The energy is directed up and outwards which causes growth. In the 2 weeks the moon is in the descent, the top growth slows down and root growth increases. Simple facts on how the moon affects water on the planet."

That is what you said. I'm not even going into what "energy" you might be talking about (the mind boggles). You are here talking about tidal strength. You do recognise that as being what you wrote I take it?

Let's try again. How does the moon affect the plant? By what mechanism?

I think the problem is that I don't know what the flip you're talking about and neither do you. You seem to have a problem with science as though it is spoiling things with all it's measurements and rigid constraints. Science is just the asking and testing of questions in a structured way so as to avoid the pitfall of surmising spurious clap trap from our so called common sense as has been demonstrated admirably as being a phenomenon by you in this thread.

The burden of proof lies with the proponent of the theory. I don't need to prove it doesn't work (although I could have a blooming good go) any more than I need to prove there is no such thing as an invisible pink unicorn if you say there is. I believe I am entitled to my opinions on the OP just as you are. Although in my opinion you should be the exception.
 
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HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
Just had a scan on the net for some info on it. Seems the general consensus is the same as the conclusions i have drawn. Never knew of these sites before now. But they are by gardeners and growers who have direct experience of the subject.

http://www.gardeningbythemoon.com/phases.html

And some more info from here
http://www.gardeningzone.org/content/content.php/lunar-gardening-an-introduction/

During the twentieth century, systematic experiments began to determine how the various lunar cycles played a part in plant metabolism, growth and development. Certain keys to understanding the relationship of plant response to lunar influence have now emerged and can be incorporated into a gardener’s or farmer’s plans as to when best to carry out various tasks, in particular sowing, planting and harvesting.
There are rhythms of energy that pulse, or ebb and flow, in approximately nine-day cycles which should resonate with the sympathetic worker; and there are specific moments, celestial events, which lunar planting calendars endeavour to catch.

[h=2]Support Evidence[/h]
There is evidence in fields of both agriculture and animal husbandry to suggest that the moon does have an influence.
In recent decades experiments have shown that the metabolism of plants, indicated by such things as their water absorption or oxygen metabolism, responds considerably to the monthly lunar cycle. Two researchers at the University of Paris have shown that plant DNA changes in tune to this cycle. Trees have electric fields around them, measurable by the potential gradient up the trunk, and Ralph Markson in the US monitored this for years and showed how fortnightly and monthly lunar rhythms were present.Animal oestrus i.e. coming on heat is cyclic, and yet traditions link their fertility to the lunar cycle. In the 2nd century AD, the astronomer Claudius Ptolemy reported of the practical, hard-headed farmers of the Roman Empire that they ‘notice the espects of the Moon, when at full, in order to direct the copulation of their herds and flocks, and the setting of plants or sowing of seeds; and there is not an individual who considers these general precautions as impossible or unprofitable.’There is also evidence to suggest that the phases of the moon affect the water table, which seems obvious given the gravitational effect that the moon has on our oceans.

[h=2]Applying the Theories[/h]Do seeds germinate better at some point of the lunar cycle? Experiments with seeds grown at constant temperature tended to confirm the results published by Kolisko in the late 1930s, namely that seeds would usually germinate better if sown around the Full Moon, and especially on the day or two prior to it.The vital question of how final crop yield is affected by sowing date has been thoroughly investigated within the Bio-dynamic movement. However, deep disagreement exists amongst experts in this area. For some decades now, Maria Thun has been reporting her results in her yearly Moon-calendar, which apparently show weight-yields in accord with the elements of the sidereal or star-zodiac.At its simplest, lunar planting is easy;
  • the waxing moon, which is the growing moon from new to full. That’s when the moisture level in the soil is at it’s highest and when you should do your planting.
  • the waning moon which is from full to last quarter. That’s when the moisture content is at its lowest and there’s less sap rising in your trees and shrubs so it’s when you should do your pruning.


So it seems that the lunar gardeneing experiment has been ongoing for a long time, and that there are results. But then they aint all scientists so they all must be wrong eh?
 
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demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,194
205
-------------
There was me thinking that its best to plant when the soil temperature gets about right and harvest when the item is ripe.
 

Prawnster

Full Member
Jun 24, 2008
806
0
St. Helens
Maybe this is me over thinking this but... The theory goes that the best time to harvest is at full moon when the moons gravity has pulled more moisture into the plant or fruit right?

Wouldn't the extra water in the fruit make the fruit less tasty? If it was true wouldn't the flavour be watered down?

I like my strawberries to taste of strawberries not Evian :)


Sent from my phone.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
Not at all, it will give you the juiciest and sweetest fruit, as it also pulls the sugars within the plant up with the moisture. If you dont harvest them witht he moon then the fruit isnt as juicy or tasty.

Maybe this is me over thinking this but... The theory goes that the best time to harvest is at full moon when the moons gravity has pulled more moisture into the plant or fruit right?

Wouldn't the extra water in the fruit make the fruit less tasty? If it was true wouldn't the flavour be watered down?

I like my strawberries to taste of strawberries not Evian :)


Sent from my phone.
 

zarkwon

Nomad
Mar 23, 2010
492
0
West Riding, Yorkshire
Not keen on science or reading? I'm beginning to see where the thinking is going astray. I didn't realise Moon Phase Planting was your idea? I thought it went back to Aristotle and his 'Elements' and 'contrary properties'.

"Now the rise and fall effect that is created by the moon, or sun and moon if you prefer, dictates where the plant applies that energy. When the pull is strong ( the gravitaional pull that causes a high tide) the energy expended in top growth, when it is low at low tides the plant energy is expended in growth low in the plant, as in roots."

This is tidal strength again. Gravitational pull = Tidal strength. The gravitational pull of the moon (or moon and sun) is insufficient to move water or food (I think this is what you mean when you say energy) in plants or in soil. That, science does know. Certainly I cannot say, and nor would I, as it would be unscientific, that there may not be some factor as yet untested, such as extra light from a full moon or night planters taking more care than day planters, which has an effect on plants. It is not gravitational pull though.

Ever met anyone who's never grown anything?
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
25,532
400
Mercia
I have no idea whether there is anything in lunar cycles.

I do know this, ignoring traditional, unscientific, farming methods and following, "modern", "new" and "scientific / industrial" mechanisms has caused untold damage and destruction to our long term agricultural futures.

From moving to NPK fertiliser from manure and compost we have managed to destroy long tem soil fertility, coupled with grubbing out hedgrows we now have soil erosion measured in tonnes per acre per year and vast loss of soil condition, moisture retention, soil life etc.

Perhaps there seemed no good reason to spread muck when peleted fertiliser or have all those inefficient hedges when the new, modern scientific, farming was developed.

We now have come to realise that many of the old ways, whilst seeming a little cumbersome, had evolved over millenia for sound reasons

Red
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Gardening and farming holds a lot of superstitions, this is one.

My family has been in farming for generations and i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, if a farmer could improve his yield by 0.5% then he'd be doing it.

0.5% sounds nothing, but as an example the UK produces around 75,000 tons of tomatoes a year.
0.5% of 75,000 is 375 tons each and every year.

That's just tomatoes factor in all the other fruit and vegetables and you have to be somewhere around 16 million tons of ruit and veg produced in the UK each year.

So even a 0.5% gain in yield would be VERY big business.

It's not just the UK either, i spoke with my mother-in-law about this, she grew up in a small village on the west side of Greece.
The village was (and still is) very much isolated.

When she was growing up, if there was a bad crop people literally starved to death.
She's told me stories of people in the village chewing on the leather soles of shoes to ward off hunger through bad harvests.

Being a Greek lady in her 70's you can imagine that she has a follows many superstitions.
When i asked her about lunar farming though she did crack a giggle :lmao:


My advise is, if your curious then give it a go.
Plant another batch as you would usually and see if there is any difference.

For me and my experience a well planted and tended crop will grow better.

You can hedge your bets on when to plant
But still luck plays a vast vast factor in yield even in todays high tech world.


My view is that it's absolute rubbish.
A guy was sitting there thinking his horoscopes haven't been selling well, so came up with an idea to diversify his book sales by creating yet another gardening superstition.

Give it a go though, your not hurting anyone.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
I read plenty, and no, obviously its not my idea.

Met plenty of folk who dont grow plants/veg/fruit.

Not keen on science or reading? I'm beginning to see where the thinking is going astray. I didn't realise Moon Phase Planting was your idea? I thought it went back to Aristotle and his 'Elements' and 'contrary properties'.

"Now the rise and fall effect that is created by the moon, or sun and moon if you prefer, dictates where the plant applies that energy. When the pull is strong ( the gravitaional pull that causes a high tide) the energy expended in top growth, when it is low at low tides the plant energy is expended in growth low in the plant, as in roots."

This is tidal strength again. Gravitational pull = Tidal strength. The gravitational pull of the moon (or moon and sun) is insufficient to move water or food (I think this is what you mean when you say energy) in plants or in soil. That, science does know. Certainly I cannot say, and nor would I, as it would be unscientific, that there may not be some factor as yet untested, such as extra light from a full moon or night planters taking more care than day planters, which has an effect on plants. It is not gravitational pull though.

Ever met anyone who's never grown anything?
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
Its not about gain, you dont gain more crops per se. Its about harvesting at the best time for best quality. Or harvesting roots for storage when moisture content it low so they store for longer. Thats about it as far as harvesting goes. Planting at the right time shortens the growing season for that plant by a couple of weeks, it gives it a better start. Nothing more to it than that really.

Gardening and farming holds a lot of superstitions, this is one.

My family has been in farming for generations and i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, if a farmer could improve his yield by 0.5% then he'd be doing it.

0.5% sounds nothing, but as an example the UK produces around 75,000 tons of tomatoes a year.
0.5% of 75,000 is 375 tons each and every year.

That's just tomatoes factor in all the other fruit and vegetables and you have to be somewhere around 16 million tons of ruit and veg produced in the UK each year.

So even a 0.5% gain in yield would be VERY big business.

It's not just the UK either, i spoke with my mother-in-law about this, she grew up in a small village on the west side of Greece.
The village was (and still is) very much isolated.

When she was growing up, if there was a bad crop people literally starved to death.
She's told me stories of people in the village chewing on the leather soles of shoes to ward off hunger through bad harvests.

Being a Greek lady in her 70's you can imagine that she has a follows many superstitions.
When i asked her about lunar farming though she did crack a giggle :lmao:


My advise is, if your curious then give it a go.
Plant another batch as you would usually and see if there is any difference.

For me and my experience a well planted and tended crop will grow better.

You can hedge your bets on when to plant
But still luck plays a vast vast factor in yield even in todays high tech world.


My view is that it's absolute rubbish.
A guy was sitting there thinking his horoscopes haven't been selling well, so came up with an idea to diversify his book sales by creating yet another gardening superstition.

Give it a go though, your not hurting anyone.
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
0
Lincoln
I have no idea whether there is anything in lunar cycles.

I do know this, ignoring traditional, unscientific, farming methods and following, "modern", "new" and "scientific / industrial" mechanisms has caused untold damage and destruction to our long term agricultural futures.

From moving to NPK fertiliser from manure and compost we have managed to destroy long tem soil fertility, coupled with grubbing out hedgrows we now have soil erosion measured in tonnes per acre per year and vast loss of soil condition, moisture retention, soil life etc.

Perhaps there seemed no good reason to spread muck when peleted fertiliser or have all those inefficient hedges when the new, modern scientific, farming was developed.

We now have come to realise that many of the old ways, whilst seeming a little cumbersome, had evolved over millenia for sound reasons

Red
the hedgerow grubbing up was an idea the government had to increase available land, was a typical, not thought out move that recent governments have been trying to back track on. now they have to pay farmers to have hedges
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
0
Lincoln
Its not about gain, you dont gain more crops per se. Its about harvesting at the best time for best quality. Or harvesting roots for storage when moisture content it low so they store for longer. Thats about it as far as harvesting goes. Planting at the right time shortens the growing season for that plant by a couple of weeks, it gives it a better start. Nothing more to it than that really.
there are plenty of papers debunking lunar planting as well, giving one side of an argument and presenting it as fact doesn't make it true
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
0
Lincoln
That applies to the others too :)

Debunkers are full of **** for the most part anyway.
if its ever proven in an impartial and controlled test that moon phase gardening works then I might attempt dibbing holes in a straight line in the dark. until then, regular gardening works perfectly well enough for me, fruit and veg tastes good when it's ready anyway
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
:lmao: You dont plant at night you wally :lmao:

if its ever proven in an impartial and controlled test that moon phase gardening works then I might attempt dibbing holes in a straight line in the dark. until then, regular gardening works perfectly well enough for me, fruit and veg tastes good when it's ready anyway
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,113
57
W. Yorkshire
Zarkwon.

I have had a good read about things, and a good think about things and now i see what you are saying :) I have confused 2 issues. Light, and gravitational pull.

I'll explain. My theory, as you know related to gravitational effects. But thinking on it, it doesn't exactly correlate to tidal highs and lows. Now i am certain that plants behave differently at different moon phases, as i have genuinely been watching and noting growth spurts in conjunction with moon phase, and what i said about top growth during the full moon period and root growth during the new moon period are also genuine. My thinking now is that perhaps its the light reflected from the moon that is causing it. The half leading upto and past full moon ( 3 to 9 oclock) is causing the top growth to grow?stretch towards it, and the darker half is when the roots grow.