Might it be better to load your pack with the gear you intend to carry? The balance of a bag of spuds is likely to be quite different from the "real" kit.
Physical conditioning with heavy backpack
- Thread starter lub0
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Just a thought, will your training include a couple of multi day trips?
Recovering from one (admittedly long) day's walking with a relaxing day is different to having to do it again the next day, and the next, and the next, ...
I saw an example of this recently when I was a support driver for a 780mile charity cycle from Austria to London. There were 12 riders and all had cycled 100 miles plus on their training days. They were confident and cocky that the 90 mile a day would be easy. They had done more than 100 in training!
The first couple of days they were fine, a bit sore but doing OK. Then the culminated niggles and pains set in. Suddenly their speed dropped off and the days got longer as they took more and more time to complete the 80 to 90 miles. They hadn't considered the mounting impact of a rubbing seat here, a stressed tendon there.
One guy spent 4 days with me in the van as his knees were shot.
On the training rides he was fine and often led. On the real thing the pounding he took day in day out took its toll!
So my advice is whatever you decide to do, do it in a "real world" manner with 2 or 3 continous days. Not just one day then a couple of days off.
Recovering from one (admittedly long) day's walking with a relaxing day is different to having to do it again the next day, and the next, and the next, ...
I saw an example of this recently when I was a support driver for a 780mile charity cycle from Austria to London. There were 12 riders and all had cycled 100 miles plus on their training days. They were confident and cocky that the 90 mile a day would be easy. They had done more than 100 in training!
The first couple of days they were fine, a bit sore but doing OK. Then the culminated niggles and pains set in. Suddenly their speed dropped off and the days got longer as they took more and more time to complete the 80 to 90 miles. They hadn't considered the mounting impact of a rubbing seat here, a stressed tendon there.
One guy spent 4 days with me in the van as his knees were shot.
On the training rides he was fine and often led. On the real thing the pounding he took day in day out took its toll!
So my advice is whatever you decide to do, do it in a "real world" manner with 2 or 3 continous days. Not just one day then a couple of days off.
I'm back from the training. I managed 11 miles before I couldn't bear the aches and sores any longer and called for a lift! Not bad going as it was 2 miles more than the last. I realised that I had not full recovered from my last training day as the areas the shoulder and hip straps go were still quite sore. No blisters at all this time, but my left foot still had that mild pain, but it really is very mild and not a problem, just not ideal.
By the way I did not bother buying the 20kg sack of spuds and instead went out with the previous weight, however I decided to weigh the pack to be sure it is 28kg and lo and behold the reading was 30.48kg. Also I found out the strap that tensions the hip pad belt was loose... no wonder the pack was so uncomfortable as it had significant sideways sway at the hip area. With a quick pull of the tension strap the ALICE was much more comfortable to carry this time round.
I'm at the half-way point in my training. I have no doubt next training day I will manage the full 12 miles I intended to do today.
A funny thing is while I was resting/dozing with my dog on the bench before heading back home, when I opened my eyes a bottle of water and a fiva had been placed beside me. The family I heard walking past must of thought I was some sort of down-and-out what with the huge pack and dog, haha!
Very good point you make and is something I'm well aware of. I intend to get to 22 miles then I will train for consecutive day hiking until I can indeed walk 22 miles on the trot. I have no idea if this is achievable for 12 days on the trot, though. If worse comes to worse and I fall behind my 12 day schedule I can always eat by going to shops on the way however I'd love to do it all in 12 days so I can completely live off the pack.
After this training today I am once again itching to know how the weight would feel in a berghaus vulcan or a lower alpine salient/sting. Does anyone know a shop/online store that would refund me no questions asked if the pack turns out to offer no better comfort than my current ALICE pack??? Or does anyone live in Nottingham who would let me try one of these packs on with my sack of rice inside?
By the way I did not bother buying the 20kg sack of spuds and instead went out with the previous weight, however I decided to weigh the pack to be sure it is 28kg and lo and behold the reading was 30.48kg. Also I found out the strap that tensions the hip pad belt was loose... no wonder the pack was so uncomfortable as it had significant sideways sway at the hip area. With a quick pull of the tension strap the ALICE was much more comfortable to carry this time round.
I'm at the half-way point in my training. I have no doubt next training day I will manage the full 12 miles I intended to do today.
A funny thing is while I was resting/dozing with my dog on the bench before heading back home, when I opened my eyes a bottle of water and a fiva had been placed beside me. The family I heard walking past must of thought I was some sort of down-and-out what with the huge pack and dog, haha!
Very good point you make and is something I'm well aware of. I intend to get to 22 miles then I will train for consecutive day hiking until I can indeed walk 22 miles on the trot. I have no idea if this is achievable for 12 days on the trot, though. If worse comes to worse and I fall behind my 12 day schedule I can always eat by going to shops on the way however I'd love to do it all in 12 days so I can completely live off the pack.
After this training today I am once again itching to know how the weight would feel in a berghaus vulcan or a lower alpine salient/sting. Does anyone know a shop/online store that would refund me no questions asked if the pack turns out to offer no better comfort than my current ALICE pack??? Or does anyone live in Nottingham who would let me try one of these packs on with my sack of rice inside?
Last edited:
I'd adfvise agaist this. Shaggystu's point is somewhat valid; there is a difference between training and real world. However the point of training (free-weight training, aerobic training, or any physical training) is to break your body down and then allow it to heal stronger than it was before. If you don't allow that healing time, all you're doing is compounding the breaking down. YES, this will happen once you begin the real trip; that's why you budget in a rest day or two along the way as you hinted. If you finish without using them, fantastic. If not, oh well, you anticipated it, and allowed for it.
Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm already strong and fit being able to do 10 strict pullups, 10 dips, sprints, long jogs, just never really trained with a heavy pack but I have no doubts I'll quickly adapt to this.
Today (the morning after) all pains have vanished, in fact the only pain I did have from my 9 mile 28kg walk yesterday was a mildy sore left ankle, which stopped being sore half way through the walk. Pretty good going for my first long-distance heavy pack walk, no?
Really the only lasting effect this morning is a good tired feeling in the leg muscles and the small blister on the right foot both of which will dissapear in a couple of days time at which point I will attempt a 12 miler, maybe a 15, with my 28kg ALICE.
I was reading about the karimmor sabres last night and quickly came across a lot of negative comments on them, mainly pointing out how they are mediocre packs, however I tried hard to find anything negative about the berghaus vulcan, so I'm probably going to go with the vulcan if I can somehow bring myself to part with the small fortune.
As requested here's my kit list in it's current incarnation. It's by no means complete and I'm sure I can shave off a kg or two with the help of you guys?
Solid fuel blocks 1500g and Trangia set 1000g =2.5kg thats a lot, a omnifuel stove plus 0.5l of fuel and a mess tin or pot of choice would come in at less than 1kg and have fuel to spare for coffee.
Sodium chlorite, whats that for?
Well I'm still open to changing my kit for lighter options, so I'll look in to this omnifuel stove, but are you kidding when you say half a litre will be able to heat-up all 24 meals to boiling-point, plus spare for brews?? If so I'll probably go ahead a buy it right now lol!
the sodium chlorite is used for emergency water purification and an ingestible pathogenic killer should I contract such a thing.
the sodium chlorite is used for emergency water purification and an ingestible pathogenic killer should I contract such a thing.
Last edited:
I dont know how long 0.5l of fuel lasts in mins, without testing, maybe someone else does.
But its got to last longer than 12 solid fuel blocks.
But its got to last longer than 12 solid fuel blocks.
yeah I made a mistake with that bit of my list. Each 230g box of MOD-issue hexi contains 8 individual blocks. I usually use two blocks to heat up a dehydrated meal to boiling point, and if conditions are ideal one block does the job! So in total I should carry 48 blocks so that's 6 boxes at a weight of 1380 grams. The versatile thing about hexi is you can save your stores of it by adding twigs and such like to the fire.
I'm trying out methylated spirit alcohol in my SAT, experimenting on weather or not I will be carrying less weight by using alcohol over solid hexi.
This primus omnifuel looks too complicated and fancey for my liking. A pump for a gas bottle? I think I'll stay away from this one unless it turns out one gas bottle could do me for the entire 48 cooked meals, then I will probably get it!
Last edited:
On the basis of energy per unit weight, meths and hexy are amongst the poorest fuels available. LPG is best, diesel, paraffin and petrol the next best in about that order but not a lot to choose between them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Appendix
Twigs are much better than any of those because you don't have to carry them. I have a little stainless steel stove that packs flat to about 5 x 4 x 0.3 inches and weghs 340g. If its use is permitted, the fuel is abundant and free. It's messy of course so a few freezer bags come in handy.
Probably better just to leave the stoves at home.
Paraffin i use, find it last for ages.
Also got one of those ss cutlery drainers from 99p shop what works well.
How much water do you boil at a time for your meals.
Also got one of those ss cutlery drainers from 99p shop what works well.
How much water do you boil at a time for your meals.
Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm already strong and fit being able to do 10 strict pullups, 10 dips, sprints, long jogs, just never really trained with a heavy pack but I have no doubts I'll quickly adapt to this.
Today (the morning after) all pains have vanished, in fact the only pain I did have from my 9 mile 28kg walk yesterday was a mildy sore left ankle, which stopped being sore half way through the walk. Pretty good going for my first long-distance heavy pack walk, no?
Really the only lasting effect this morning is a good tired feeling in the leg muscles and the small blister on the right foot both of which will dissapear in a couple of days time at which point I will attempt a 12 miler, maybe a 15, with my 28kg ALICE.
I was reading about the karimmor sabres last night and quickly came across a lot of negative comments on them, mainly pointing out how they are mediocre packs, however I tried hard to find anything negative about the berghaus vulcan, so I'm probably going to go with the vulcan if I can somehow bring myself to part with the small fortune.
As requested here's my kit list in it's current incarnation. It's by no means complete and I'm sure I can shave off a kg or two with the help of you guys?
A couple of items might save you some weight (albeit a small amount):
1. Ditch the razor
2. The towel. You might have a look at the special purpose micro-fibertowels made specifically for hiking. Mine is a full sized towel but packs smaller than a dish towel and is about the same weight. They have the same water absorbancy (or greater) as a regular towel and dry faster. Here's a link to just one source www.botachtactical.com/mcnetttowel.html
No idea here your getting your advice with regards to your training from, but it's shockingly bad.
You are running the risk or seriously injuring yourself, and an injury that is liable to haunt you for life.
The weight is not really the problem, it's your stamina you need to work on.
I could go on and on, but spike's advice below is absolutely spot on.
Ignore at your peril, the enthusiasm of youth will only get you so far.
You are running the risk or seriously injuring yourself, and an injury that is liable to haunt you for life.
The weight is not really the problem, it's your stamina you need to work on.
I could go on and on, but spike's advice below is absolutely spot on.
Ignore at your peril, the enthusiasm of youth will only get you so far.
cbr6fs what exactly am I doing that's potentially going to cause injury? I've actually ordered a berghaus vulcan II rucksack earlier today because you guys have convinced me the ALICE is no good. I'm really looking forward to loading the vulcan and seeing if it's that much more comfortable.
As for the advice on walking the distance before carrying any weight, I disagree in that what's the point? Why not kill two birds with one stone and get straight to the point of the exercise and go the distance carrying the loads you intend to. I and pretty much anyone of average fitness could walk 22 miles even with a day-pack type of weight on their back, so why do I need to train to walk 22 miles with next to no weight on my back!?!
So what exactly do you think I'm doing to cause injury to myself??
Razor is only 30 grams and I don't want to look as bad as I'll smell upon returning home!
I've got a microfibre towel already. I'm bringing it because it's light and packs small, but I hate them cos they are about as absorbant as a plastic bag!
As for the advice on walking the distance before carrying any weight, I disagree in that what's the point? Why not kill two birds with one stone and get straight to the point of the exercise and go the distance carrying the loads you intend to. I and pretty much anyone of average fitness could walk 22 miles even with a day-pack type of weight on their back, so why do I need to train to walk 22 miles with next to no weight on my back!?!
So what exactly do you think I'm doing to cause injury to myself??
Razor is only 30 grams and I don't want to look as bad as I'll smell upon returning home!
I've got a microfibre towel already. I'm bringing it because it's light and packs small, but I hate them cos they are about as absorbant as a plastic bag!
Last edited:
You were not designed to do this. You do run the risk of causing yourself serious long term harm. I don't know how old you are but if you still want to be getting out into the hills beyond your late forties, have a serious think about the load you plan to carry.
I have walked further than most on here, If I have carried really heavy packs that weight was mostly food and water and I managed to re-supply in some pretty remote places, you should seriously think about doing so to.
Good luck with your venture whatever you end up doing.
If your determined to yomp around with 20kg as part of a training regime then I'd ditch the spuds and get you actual kit organized and use that rather than a dead weight of Jersey Royals... Using 'real kit' will allow you to get used to packing it effectively and correctly.
Adrian Weal's book fighting fit is good it has a lot of training programmes for folk wanting to get used to lugging weight around.
Adrian Weal's book fighting fit is good it has a lot of training programmes for folk wanting to get used to lugging weight around.
Well as many others have pointed out ( all of whom have some experience in the matter) you don't start training carrying your maximum weight from day 1..... it should be a gradual process, giving your body time to adapt......when trainng for a marathon, you don't start running the 42 km the first day but build up to it, ......
It seems this sound & sensible advice has 'gone in one ear & out the other.'......There are no short cuts especially where your long term health is concerned & it would be a shame if you had to abandon the adventure on day 3 because your knees have gone or you've slipped a disc.....
That said, orthopedic surgery has made some considerable advances...
EDIT: remember too it's the pennine way you're planning to walk not some remote wilderness, there will be times when you are only a short distance from a village or shops, there is no shame in comming off the path from time to time to re-supply & maybe have a wash & brush up (& wash some clothes) in a public loo or even spend a night in a B&B........reducing pack weight & better planning the route would be my preference.......but I can understand you may want to approach it as a selection test to join the SAS.
Incidently, how are you planning to wash your cooking stuff.?
Last edited:
I thought that you might apreciate these drawings I made in my Long Distance Walking days... I wish I could still do the Long Walks but injuries picked up (when without a pack!) preclude that!
"The well equiped Pennine Way walker"
"Lightweight? - it hardly feels like I am carrying anything!"
"If all this gear is lightweight - how come my pack is so heavy?"
"This lightweight gear certainly makes your wallet lightweight!"
"The well equiped Pennine Way walker"
"Lightweight? - it hardly feels like I am carrying anything!"
"If all this gear is lightweight - how come my pack is so heavy?"
"This lightweight gear certainly makes your wallet lightweight!"
If you go to the gym you know that muscle is built by micro tearing the muscle which then repairs itself back stronger and slightly bigger.
You need to gradually build muscle and strengthen tendons around joints BEFORE you stress them dramatically.
There is no shortcut, it takes time and patience, if you do too much too soon then the support will not be there for your ankles of knees.
Look at most infantry training like the Para's or Marines.
The armed forces have spent millions on how best to train their recruits and how best to avoid injury, they know what they're doing.
