Persuade me to go light?!

[Woody girl]

Getting older, and riddled with various pains in my back hips and legs feet and spine, rucksack camping has of necessity become a lot more lightweight for me.
Simple weight savings, such as a titanium spork instead of the usual knife fork and spoon, and a titanium pot/mug, both second hand, have made quite a bit of difference also a down bag, that goes to -10, has saved a lot of weight.
If you want a tent still, the dd superlight is an option. You can just use the outer in warm weather, and put the mesh inner in if there are bugs about, and to add a bit more warmth if needed. I have a lightweight dumo air mat, which I use with a cheap foam mat with reflective foil on one side, both to add warmth and protect the air mat.
That's as far as I've got with a lightweight set up, though I am eyeing up an osprey backpack, as they are supposed to be very lightweight.
I don't realy like to sleep out in the cold and damp, as no matter how much I protect my body it gets through and cripples me! Late spring to early autumn only for me now sadly. Usualy with a full hammock set up, which that alone, takes all the weight I can stumble along for a few yards with

Welsh mountains in November with a full pack are for the younger me, and are no longer on my itinerary!

 

[Paul_B]

Never thought the sport a good idea. The thought is a knife, fork and spoon in one, but how to hold the food with a spork the cut with the spork too? Maybe I've misunderstood them but I've heard they're not very good as a spoon or fork. I carried a long handled spoon and a very light opinel knife. It's all you really need for cutlery IMHO.

I must admit I was a simple water boiler with dried food. Longer walks I'd buy commercial backpacking dried food in pouches hence the long handled spoon. I'd pick the menu based on calories per 100g. Also buy in double packs as I'm a big eater when hiking out. It all helps to save weight. Marginal gains and all that.

My other advice is if tarp camping more peg out points the better. I've had the odd night using a small tarp when it's blown away from one corner. Not good having to get out of your bivvy to find your pegs and repitch in a more windproof style in the middle of the night. I wear glasses and I've often got to do it without my glasses because it's a panic rescue of my shelter. Its amazing how far pegs fly when hooked in a tarp loop or guy when it flies up in one corner. Usually I only, find some the next morning. Pays to have pegs with hiviz heat shrink sleeves.

BTW those situations always start with a very nice, settled evening without wind forecasted so I pitched in a lean too. Wind came up then changed direction. Easy mistakes.

 

[Woody girl]

I've had that with a plowpoint set up on the coast. Onshore wind when I set up. Early morning, the wind got up, about turned, and I had a sail! Luckily one peg held, or I'd have lost the tarp entirely! Got a bit damp trying to put things right in the dimsy Dawn light and drizzle, as I had no time to riddle about for my headtorch if I wanted to save my tarp! but I survived, all good fun, and a learning curve, if not a lesson in thinking about the environment and what could happen in the middle of the night. I was lucky it had just started to get light, so could find my pegs. Heaven knows how I'd have coped if I hadn't been able to find them !.

 

[Paul_B]

My time was the same only pitch darkness and two titanium pins holding it. A 1,2x2.4m tarp. A solo camp without time for anything other than a barefoot run to jump on the tarp to stop the last two legs flying too. I changed it to a simple and low A frame. I'm very shortsighted, no light, no torch and pegs up to 5 metres away. Basically I had to peg it out with half the pegs I'd have preferred because I couldn't find some.

Still whatever you survive makes you better in what you do I reckon. As someone n said to me, anything you can walk away from is good.

BTW I went obsessive about titanium this and that. Scrimping 10 or 20g here and there. But without realising it buying new and better clothing allowed fewer clothes to be taken and a bigger drop in weight. These new clothes were bought to replace worn clothing so I'd have got them anyway. I tended to forget about weight of clothing.

 

[Erbswurst]

A titanium spork weighs nearly the same as a usual stainless steel spoon from the kitchen drawer.

 

[Robson Valley]

If I had to, I've got enough junk in the rear pocket of my hunting vest to spend one uncomfortable night out. I'm not trapped by distance.

I can't spend any time crawling around on my hands and knees any more.
Gravity is my enemy, how do I stand up? D2 & SIL got the tents for the kids.
The solution was to buy a home in the mountains with untold miles of raw wilderness to fool around in each day. There are dozens of sheltered camp sites with fire pits for hot lunch.
Then home for a grand hot supper each night. Warm and dry, clean the kit, we go again tomorrow.

Never knew how many relatives I had that never saw the Rockies. They all respond with absolute car-loads of food and drink.

 

[Paul_B]

A titanium spork weighs nearly the same as a usual stainless steel spoon from the kitchen drawer.

My long handled spoon weighs less but of course I can lose a higher weight difference by cutting my hair!

 

[Erbswurst]

Exactly that's the point, that obviously a lot of beginners don't see. Obviously people buy a cheaper heavy tent and an affordable titanium spork. That's the pure nonsense.

You can get everything at half the usual weight and if you accept that the stuff gets delicate, one also could say too weak, probably less practical and pretty expensive you can force your base weight for high summer hikes below the 4,5 kg mark. Should I become 85 years old I will perhaps think about doing this. Already skillfull enough to use such weak equipment I could spend my last spare money for the last hiking seasons. Should it fail with the result that I die it doesn't matter anymore and the low durability of the equipment also becomes less interesting in this personal age.

But if you accept 6 to 7 kg baseweight you can select light but robust equipment and buy relatively cheap.
That can be done with current military equipment for the essentials if you know what's the lightest NATO stuff and still robust civil lightweight solutions for the more luxury items like additional airmat, gas stove and head lamp.

Your titanium spoon is 10 g lighter than a light looking steel spoon from the flea market.

The titanium foldng spoon was the last lightweight item that I bought and the first that I replaced with a more robust and practical solution afterwards.

And would I buy a ultralight equipment with such horribly expensive but extremely thin plastic fabrics I surely wouldn't put a fork or spork into my bag in order to puncture it accidentally in the rucksack, that's for sure just a question of time.

 

[Allans865]

Hey guys,

I'm currently lightening up my long distance hiking gear, and have just purchased this new stove, and thought it might be a worthy wee addition to this thread, as it has certainly took a few hundred grams off my kit.

It's called the Speedster Stove.
It's a meths stove, and all in, not including the MSR Titan kettle it weighs 130 grams. The kettle weighs 120 grams, so 250g all in is pretty good.

The stove itself holds 30ml of meths, which is enough to boil an MSR kettle of water.

The cook kit which I was using previously weighed 550g, which was an MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe with 110g canister, MSR Titan kettle and soldering mat to protect the tent footprint from warm pots etc.

I haven't actually used the stove yet, as I'm off trail with a broken shoulder, but there are plenty of good reviews online.

Good weight saving I think.

Not affiliated with Speedster in any way, just pretty impressed with the prices of their kit. The whole lot not including the MSR kettle was just less than £25.

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[Erbswurst]

So far I understood it depends on the duration of the trip if spiritus stoves or gas stoves are the lighter option, if you use the Alpkit Kraku vs your new stove and a very light spiritus bottle.

I never payed attention to this question because I don't want to carry spiritus in the rucksack, but if I remember it right, the gas cardridge is the lighter option if you manage to empty it exactly during your tour. For longer trips it depends on the question which fuel you can get easier.
If you can buy spiritus in every village but gas only in towns, spiritus might be the lighter option. It's cheaper anyway but in my opinion less practical.

 

[Paul_B]

Is possible to measure out meths precisely to your trip needs with experience. I had a little plastic cup a little smaller than a shaving foam cap with measure markings. One of my meths stoves used 15ml to boil water for my food and hot drink that's about 750ml of water from a stream at a cold water temperature in the hills at about 12 degrees air temp I reckon. I used a small, thin and very light meths bottle with a flip out pouring spout. It got filled to just a little more than needed. I would get home with a few drops left over.

The system was very very efficient but to get that I was carrying a bulky but light system called caldera come. That's stove, windshield and potholes in one. I didn't get on with it so preferred a whitebox stove with a foil base and windshield made out of small, cheap, disposable roasting tray. I bought a pack of 4 for a pound. I cut out my own design for the shield that was very light but secure when held with a couple of titanium pegs nicked from where it wouldn't matter while cooking. Or I just used a gas stove. I learnt just how much gas needed for trips right down to when bigger cans are more efficient. I could also finish a trip with a nearly empty can.

 

[Spirit fish]

I have been camping for over 35 years and always used a tent but now I'm getting older I would really like to lighten up on my kit and am seeing the amazingly light setups some people get with bivvy bags and tarps.

I need some persuasion, pros and cons for real world use of going the bivvy and tarp route. What works for you, what didn't work for you?


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Im.a minimilist

 

[Erbswurst]

I don't schlep a frying pan around but in the thread you mention here I showed you that it's absolutely no problem to do so for the average man if he wants it and is an experienced outdoorsman.

Once more?

Packing List for the ​

advanced Bushcrafter:​

Rucksack 1500g
Steel frying pan 2125g
Wool blanket 2000g
German Army poncho 900g
Cordage 100g
Wool jacket (as pillow too) 2000g
Spare underwear 1X
Briefs and T-shirt 250g
Woolen spare socks 1X 80g
Swimming briefs 1X 50g
Toilet paper 50g
Wash kit 175g
tooth brush, tooth cream, soap in an aluminium tin, razor, small towel

Food 1500g
in the
Mess Kit 450g
German army version, strapped onto the flap of the rucksack or put into a cotton or linen bag.

Bread bag 200g
containing
Spoon 40g
Candle 40g
Matches 20g
Sewing kit 20g

Rucksack in total weight ​

11 500 g​

ON THE MAN:

Mountain boots
Woolen Socks
Underwear
Trousers or Shorts
Cotton Handkerchief
Several times folded usable as pot holder and pre filter before water purification by boiling.
Purse
House keys
Matches
Belt
Knife
Field bottle with mug and belt pouch
T-shirt
Shirt
Buttoned long sleeved shirt with two pockets and flaps over it.
Neckerchief
Triangular Boy Scout version
Compass
Topographical map
1:50 000

Who isn't able to carry 12 kg on his back should talk to his Doctor.​

​

(I admit that my own rucksack weighs just 6 to 7 kg, but that's because I am outstanding lazy. And my doctor unfortunately can't do anything against it.)

 

[JonathanD]

You are consulting the wrong forum for this, They believed a four pound ten ounce frying pan is acceptable.
I objected and received ridicule, objection and denial.
End of story.
I hitchhiked to Istanbul when I was 16, I had to get credit on the ferry to get back to England.
I slept out every single night in the USA for three months. I worked while sleeping rough in London and hitchhiked up to a wood above London at the week end.
I had to.
Who among all these big experts here ever slept out without being in a campsite with hot and cold showers,, walk in tents and be back home Sunday nights.
I have slept rough in most countries in Europe, plus Australia, plus, Turkey, Plus Thailand, plus Vietnam, plus Mexico, and Canada.
I have crossed four borders illegally.
They have their agenda here and are not tolerant of anyone who denies their defect lies.
The problem is that members here are going along with the doctrine that they need all these products recommended by these forum masters. You don't need them!

You can’t judge a whole forum of people just because you got a few negative replies. You’re far from the only one that’s spent weeks living out of their pack in hostile environments on here. You’re in good company and with like minded people overall.

 

[billycoen]

Who among all these big experts here ever slept out without being in a campsite with hot and cold showers,, walk in tents and be back home Sunday nights.

Me.Two years homeless,no biggie,just got on with it.

 

[TeeDee]

You are consulting the wrong forum for this, They believed a four pound ten ounce frying pan is acceptable.
I objected and received ridicule, objection and denial.
End of story.
I hitchhiked to Istanbul when I was 16, I had to get credit on the ferry to get back to England.
I slept out every single night in the USA for three months. I worked while sleeping rough in London and hitchhiked up to a wood above London at the week end.
I had to.
Who among all these big experts here ever slept out without being in a campsite with hot and cold showers,, walk in tents and be back home Sunday nights.
I have slept rough in most countries in Europe, plus Australia, plus, Turkey, Plus Thailand, plus Vietnam, plus Mexico, and Canada.
I have crossed four borders illegally.
They have their agenda here and are not tolerant of anyone who denies their defect lies.
The problem is that members here are going along with the doctrine that they need all these products recommended by these forum masters. You don't need them!

Dunno about lightweight hiking but I reckon that chip on your shoulder must weigh a fair amount in itself.

Maybe consider leaving it at home?

 

[Limey Pete]

Me.Two years homeless,no biggie,just got on with it.

I did get on with it.

 

[Paul_B]

There's a lot on here who do go light and have for years. Some still carry some heavy items but overall knowledge and experience have replaced unnecessary kit. Not everyone can afford a 600g winter quilt costing nearer a grand. However a 1.5kg £100 bit bulky sleeping bag they can afford but still get into lightweight pack category.

 

[TeeDee]

Chip on my shoulder? No, I do not have one. It means having grudge.
A member Pupers called me an obnoxious person and put me on ignore. I advised him not to become so easily upset and it is only a post on the Internet.
I was surprised that nobody took my side, but then put it down to the forum members being one big happy family and unable to criticise each other.
I was a new member that posted the king has got no clothes on.
On the other hand I can see the support for a four pound ten once frying pan for persons that drive to a resort type camp site, and spend the weekend there. They could probably take a generator and plug in the TV.
This is not bushcraft in my opinion, but cheaper than spending a weekend in a hotel, eh?
Now my point is, the thread is titled Persuade me to go light.
Good luck with that. There are too many members here that think carrying a four pound ten ounce frying pan is perfectly acceptable. They are beyond persuading . . .

Chip on my shoulder? No, I do not have one. It means having grudge.
A member Pupers called me an obnoxious person and put me on ignore. I advised him not to become so easily upset and it is only a post on the Internet.
I was surprised that nobody took my side, but then put it down to the forum members being one big happy family and unable to criticise each other.
I was a new member that posted the king has got no clothes on.
On the other hand I can see the support for a four pound ten once frying pan for persons that drive to a resort type camp site, and spend the weekend there. They could probably take a generator and plug in the TV.
This is not bushcraft in my opinion, but cheaper than spending a weekend in a hotel, eh?
Now my point is, the thread is titled Persuade me to go light.
Good luck with that. There are too many members here that think carrying a four pound ten ounce frying pan is perfectly acceptable. They are beyond persuading . . .

There you go.

Opinions - wonderful things. As unique as a snowflake..

 

[Allans865]

Chip on my shoulder? No, I do not have one. It means having grudge.
A member Pupers called me an obnoxious person and put me on ignore. I advised him not to become so easily upset and it is only a post on the Internet.
I was surprised that nobody took my side, but then put it down to the forum members being one big happy family and unable to criticise each other.
I was a new member that posted the king has got no clothes on.
On the other hand I can see the support for a four pound ten once frying pan for persons that drive to a resort type camp site, and spend the weekend there. They could probably take a generator and plug in the TV.
This is not bushcraft in my opinion, but cheaper than spending a weekend in a hotel, eh?
Now my point is, the thread is titled Persuade me to go light.
Good luck with that. There are too many members here that think carrying a four pound ten ounce frying pan is perfectly acceptable. They are beyond persuading . . .

Although this is a Bushcraft forum, many members also enjoy other outdoor hobbies such as long distance hiking, myself included.

Yes the kit may be different for both hobbies, a lot of it is fundamentally the same, so I often find myself using my lightweight hiking gear on some of my bushcraft trips, especially if it involves a few miles on foot to get to my destination.

So if me offering some information on some of my hiking gear on a Bushcraft forum thread entitled 'Persuade me to go lighter' makes me an expert, well so be it, although I don't understand why you have decided to have a go at people for doing so.

And as for this forum being one big happy family....I've seen the mods step in on more occasions to break up arguments and disagreements on here than I care to remember.

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