Perception, how do we look?

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Herman30

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Aug 30, 2015
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Finland
It is kind of interesting following a discussion where our laws are so very different. I think UK would be a country where I would be more than a little lost concerning law.
The more I read about UK the more I appreciate our "everymans right" in Finland.
 

TeeDee

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Nov 6, 2008
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Lean'n'mean

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Nov 18, 2020
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Not me , I dont know what passes for laws in Scotland.

Savages.... :)
Absolutely, that's why Hadrian Trump built a wall to keep the heathens out. :D

It's reassuring to read too that folk are speaking in the present tense as though, one day, they will once again have the liberty to trespass.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
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Lancashire
Absolutely, that's why Hadrian Trump built a wall to keep the heathens out. :D

It's reassuring to read too that folk are speaking in the present tense as though, one day, they will once again have the liberty to trespass.
And Antonine wall higher up to keep the worst of them further from civilisation. The Highlanders!!!!

Seriously, the Highlanders were heathens from a much later period but it shows how the lowlands Scot and those from higher north have long been treated differently. Hadrian's wall was a money making customs wall. You can trade nicely, and more importantly scalp them, with the lowland Scot. Less so the further north which iirc was more defensive than business in function.

The above may be tongue in cheek or not. But there are civilised people north of the lowlands. Afterall there's been talk in the far north of SCEXIT!!! That's civilisation!!! :D :D
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
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And Antonine wall higher up to keep the worst of them further from civilisation. The Highlanders!!!!

Seriously, the Highlanders were heathens from a much later period but it shows how the lowlands Scot and those from higher north have long been treated differently. Hadrian's wall was a money making customs wall. You can trade nicely, and more importantly scalp them, with the lowland Scot. Less so the further north which iirc was more defensive than business in function.

The above may be tongue in cheek or not. But there are civilised people north of the lowlands. Afterall there's been talk in the far north of SCEXIT!!! That's civilisation!!! :D :D
If you want to talk about heathens you have to remember that the last part of Britain to accept Christianity was .... The Isle of Wight!
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
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Vantaa, Finland
Very different demographics and densities however - lets try to compare apples to apples.
The average does not really tell much. What should be compared is population density outside city areas and I don't think those numbers are available. Anyway walking on peoples yards is frowned on here too so I don't see all that much difference.

It is not really demographics but very different traditions.
 

TeeDee

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The average does not really tell much. What should be compared is population density outside city areas and I don't think those numbers are available. Anyway walking on peoples yards is frowned on here too so I don't see all that much difference.

It is not really demographics but very different traditions.


Yes, Its true you have a very different and mixed past.
 

C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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The average does not really tell much. What should be compared is population density outside city areas and I don't think those numbers are available. Anyway walking on peoples yards is frowned on here too so I don't see all that much difference.

It is not really demographics but very different traditions.


"The population of the UK is spread unevenly, with the population density ranging from 5,700 people per square kilometre across London to fewer than 50 people per square kilometre in the most rural local authorities of the UK."

People in cities leave cities to use the countryside, so city population should not be excluded when thinking about density/foot traffic in rural areas. This year particularly the areas I usually walk and see a handful of walkers have been heaving with people, positively trampled by crowds.

Demographics vs tradition. It could be argued that the historically population density was a driver for what became tradition. ;)
 
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henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
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Derby
As to the original question I personally see anyone in full drab as being suspicious. That's round Silverdale and Arnside AONB where there's plenty of farms,shoots and nature reserves. IMHO it's possible to go on about your outdoor activities without looking like a hunter/poacher/soldier. Unless you're hunting with permission I question the use of hunter style clothing in activities other than hunting. There's many good makers of outdoor clothing who sell discrete outdoor clothing that doesn't look all hunter like.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and there's many good reasons for such clothing. Not least the expense of buying whole new sets of it for hunting, walking and other outdoor activities. I just think if you're out at night for the stars you could be wearing bright orange paramo or mountaineering jacket and people would see you as less of a potential concern, especially farmers, landowners, gamekeepers and others making a living from the land. Excuse to buy more kit????!!! I wear country/shooting clothing even around our villages as I think one looks dapper & I welcome the kind re
 
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henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
404
259
Derby
As to the original question I personally see anyone in full drab as being suspicious. That's round Silverdale and Arnside AONB where there's plenty of farms,shoots and nature reserves. IMHO it's possible to go on about your outdoor activities without looking like a hunter/poacher/soldier. Unless you're hunting with permission I question the use of hunter style clothing in activities other than hunting. There's many good makers of outdoor clothing who sell discrete outdoor clothing that doesn't look all hunter like.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and there's many good reasons for such clothing. Not least the expense of buying whole new sets of it for hunting, walking and other outdoor activities. I just think if you're out at night for the stars you could be wearing bright orange paramo or mountaineering jacket and people would see you as less of a potential concern, especially farmers, landowners, gamekeepers and others making a living from the land. Excuse to buy more kit????!!! I wear country/shooting clothing even around our villages as I think one looks dapper & I welcome the kind remarks from people.
I wear country/shooting wear around our villages as I think it looks very smart,I also wear my bushcraft clothing as I feel comfy in them,does that make me a potential criminal.
What does it really matter how we dress?
I can honestly say, if I was walking on a right of way/ foot path be it day or night & was challenged because of what I was wearing I wouldn’t be so pleased. I’m within the law & doing nothing wrong.
I wouldn’t be seen dead in bright clothing for a days hike in the hills/mountains as I wish to blend in, to be one with nature.
 
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Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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As to the original question I personally see anyone in full drab as being suspicious. That's round Silverdale and Arnside AONB where there's plenty of farms,shoots and nature reserves. IMHO it's possible to go on about your outdoor activities without looking like a hunter/poacher/soldier. Unless you're hunting with permission I question the use of hunter style clothing in activities other than hunting. There's many good makers of outdoor clothing who sell discrete outdoor clothing that doesn't look all hunter like.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and there's many good reasons for such clothing. Not least the expense of buying whole new sets of it for hunting, walking and other outdoor activities. I just think if you're out at night for the stars you could be wearing bright orange paramo or mountaineering jacket and people would see you as less of a potential concern, especially farmers, landowners, gamekeepers and others making a living from the land. Excuse to buy more kit????!!! Lol

Only tourists wear bright clothing around here and no matter what colour jacket they had on they would be questioned if out at night; there's far too much rural crime going on and it's not (usually) the locals doing it. Having said that, badger baiting still goes on and those guys typically wear camo and the only thing worse you could have in your car than three dogs would be a spade :)
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
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Knowhere
Best camouflage of all is a yellow hi viz jacket and a safety helmet, everybody will think you are out on a job. Everyone is of course free to dress as they like, but other people are also free to draw whatever conclusions they do about that, and that is something you cannot control.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
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Lancashire
If you want to talk about heathens you have to remember that the last part of Britain to accept Christianity was .... The Isle of Wight!
You've proven my point, that's where queen Victoria felt most at home apparently. Backwards culture if not cultural heathens. Add in any edge of a country too.

Of course I'm not being wholly serious. I went to IoW once. Felt like Bournemouth to me. Could have been too. I was young and got put onto a big boat and for all I know could have just been sailed across to near Bournemouth without realising it. No intention on going back.
 

Wildgoose

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May 15, 2012
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Middlesex
Only tourists wear bright clothing around here and no matter what colour jacket they had on they would be questioned if out at night; there's far too much rural crime going on and it's not (usually) the locals doing it. Having said that, badger baiting still goes on and those guys typically wear camo and the only thing worse you could have in your car than three dogs would be a spade :)
No camo but a folding spade lives in the van, always in there along with oversized high vis jacket, first aid, torch etc.
 

TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,737
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Vantaa, Finland
Demographics vs tradition. It could be argued that the historically population density was a driver for what became tradition.
That is not impossible. In this case I think the driver is the Finnish hunting tradition that is very different from anything more southern. The other reason for everymanrights is land ownership that never was dominated by nobility or comparable, feudalism somehow drifted past us and when Imperial Russia made a few lame tries it was already too late.

As to hunting clothes, I hate ammo loops and never carry any kill in a pocket of any kind. Elk hunters have to use hiviz vests and red hats but others use normal outdoor clothing.
 

henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
404
259
Derby
Only tourists wear bright clothing around here and no matter what colour jacket they had on they would be questioned if out at night; there's far too much rural crime going on and it's not (usually) the locals doing it. Having said that, badger baiting still goes on and those guys typically wear camo and the only thing worse you could have in your car than three dogs would be a spade :)
There is nothing better than a night time walk in the country to awakens the senses.
I understand rural places are an easy pick,( I live in one)but so are urban areas as their just isn’t the policing any more.(Bobby’s on the beat).
Bit of a different scenario here..What if I wore my shooting clothing in the town or city, does that make me a blood sport person or may have a weapon as I’ll look out of place?

If anyone is on a right off way no matter what time off the day, we are doing nothing wrong, so what right has anyone got to assume otherwise, no man is above the uk law.
Badger baiting, fox hunting, hare coursing..where do these people come from exactly?
What about rapture persecution, we all know who is responsible for that as it is proven.
So maybe more people visiting the country side could bring down crime as there’s more fear of criminals being seen & caught.
That is not impossible. In this case I think the driver is the Finnish hunting tradition that is very different from anything more southern. The other reason for everymanrights is land ownership that never was dominated by nobility or comparable, feudalism somehow drifted past us and when Imperial Russia made a few lame tries it was already too late.

As to hunting clothes, I hate ammo loops and never carry any kill in a pocket of any kind. Elk hunters have to use hiviz vests and red hats but others use normal outdoor clothing.
Is it because Elk & moose can’t see red/orange..thus making it easier for you to be seen by another person on a hunt?
 

TLM

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Nov 16, 2019
1,737
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Vantaa, Finland
Is it because Elk & moose can’t see red/orange..thus making it easier for you to be seen by another person on a hunt?
That is the rationale, my experience is that elk do not see red, especially when even slightly uneven or mixed with other colours. A moving red blob is fairly easy for anyone not red/green colour blind to see.
 

Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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There is nothing better than a night time walk in the country to awakens the senses.
I understand rural places are an easy pick,( I live in one)but so are urban areas as their just isn’t the policing any more.(Bobby’s on the beat).
Bit of a different scenario here..What if I wore my shooting clothing in the town or city, does that make me a blood sport person or may have a weapon as I’ll look out of place?

If anyone is on a right off way no matter what time off the day, we are doing nothing wrong, so what right has anyone got to assume otherwise, no man is above the uk law.
Badger baiting, fox hunting, hare coursing..where do these people come from exactly?
What about rapture persecution, we all know who is responsible for that as it is proven.
So maybe more people visiting the country side could bring down crime as there’s more fear of criminals being seen & caught.

Is it because Elk & moose can’t see red/orange..thus making it easier for you to be seen by another person on a hunt?

I don't disagree; I love a night-time walk especially in moonlight. However, if you see a stranger doing it around here you are doing your civic duty by questioning them - it doesn't have to be aggressive, just polite 'how are you, have you travelled far?' etc.

As for where do these people come from - it's a wide cross section of society, each to a different "sport". Around here both gamekeepers and farmers are guilty of shooting what they like. Hare coursing (none around here) and badger baiting is usually from the towns.

It is my understanding that most herbivores do not see well in the red spectrum and, for some prey, hunters would be better off wearing red and black camo than green and black. Wonder how that would look in town :)
 

TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,737
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Vantaa, Finland
Red/black camo seems to exist, slightly odd looking but deer don't mind. Then there is ofcourse the Swiss "alpenfläge" which is a slightly strange version of pointilism in camo. Not camo at all from short distance but fair enough from longer ones when humans are looking.
 

henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
404
259
Derby
Strange isn’t it, black & red are sinister colours,a warning even in nature..
Yet I think they look great together?
says a lot about me
 
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