OS 'Access Land'

[Goatboy]

Oh dear, one must reply. You may request that one leave and if one does then you have no right to use force. Should you do so then you would be breaking the criminal law. But then you of course you appear to want to promote the fear of the out doors which is a weird sub-text to this forum.

Must one!..................

 

[Macaroon]

I must be missing something?????? a weird sub-text promoting the fear of the outdoors??????? Where, then, is that evident? My head's gonna come off with all this shaking!..................atb mac

 

[didicoy]

Oh dear, one must reply. You may request that one leave and if one does then you have no right to use force. Should you do so then you would be breaking the criminal law. But then you of course you appear to want to promote the fear of the out doors which is a weird sub-text to this forum.

I don't have a right to use force, this isn't an act of victimization against campers or rough sleepers. Its about enforcing common courtesy and education, if you prefer a sub: countryside code. I do have a tractor and muck spreader however for those hard of hearing.

 

[Gray]

Its illegal, simple as that. This is a public forum which will not promote the use of illegal activities. There is no other debate, thats it in a nutshell.

 

[boatman]

I don't have a right to use force, this isn't an act of victimization against campers or rough sleepers. Its about enforcing common courtesy and education, if you prefer a sub: countryside code. I do have a tractor and muck spreader however for those hard of hearing.

Excellent and a courteous request would be, I hope, courteously complied with.

 

[Man of Tanith]

Mod hat on.
Several folk have mentioned it but I will reiterate.
BushcraftUK does not condone the breaking of laws nor the encouraging of others to break laws.
The OP asked and has been told the legal standing of his question.

 

[TomH]

I was gonna steer clear of this as in terms of laws and bylaws and the legality of such aforementioned laws and the breakage of said law be it intentional or unintentional based on ignorance of previously stated and restated and reworded law or bylaw pertaining to being in a somnific state be that within man made structure blah, blah. Blah.

But as i brought this up i just wanted to say that i agree with British Red in his first statement that this forum has its rules, its tone and is not my place to do anything that the owners would not condone.

As an adult of sound mind I gotta say i'm with boatman and my wife will be sleeping alone saturday night.

Its times like these i'm reminded why i very rarely get involved in any sort of internet social network / message board.


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[Tony]

Interesting thread, mainly because of pedantic stubborn views. If anyone wants to camp in places they should not be camping then they should not talk about it on Bushcraft UK, simple as that, we encourage wild camping with permission, we cannot condone wild camping without permission and the way I see it is that if there's legal notice, physical notices (on site or in the local area etc) or anything like that saying you can't then it's wrong to do it and promote it on Bushcraft UK. If there's permission via legal notice or physical notices then get on with using it and telling us all about it, we love to hear about things like this.

The best way is to go through the laborious task of finding permission, buying land or traveling to a place where it's not an issue, be that scotland, higher up the mountains in other parts of the UK or abroad. As far as this forum is concerned there is not an inherent right for people to camp wherever they please. I sometimes despair at the attitudes of people (not pointing fingers here) that they should be able to camp where they want etc, we are supposed to be improving relationships with land owners etc not publicly declaring we have no respect for them or their legal rights and that they're the enemy, that just seems wrong to me.

So, discussion about wild camping generally (skills, kit, access etc) or specifically where you have permission is fine, we encourage it, but discussion about camping where you should not be camping is not a good thing to talk about on Bushcraft UK.

 

[didicoy]

I understand why some members of the public, assume they will be doing no harm by wild camping without permission. In that as their intention is to be short term, low impact and considerate. Only a small % of wild campers have the skills/knowledge commonly associated with good bushcraft. From the owners point of view., It is so important that they are aware/approached and in most cases permit these activities. Finding a area of their land/woodland disturbed, fire pits, sometime even litter or damage. Are all cause for concern from a ownership/management point of view. It doesn't matter if its a overgrown garden, a few acres of pasture, copse, woodland/forest or Access land. The resulting impact from discovering evidence of unauthorized human activity, can result in hours of time considering if any actions/measures need to be taken, to prevent further disturbance. For example, site monitoring, signs, fencing. Fires at the wrong time of year/area, wildlife disturbance may all be of concern from a management point of view. If I receive a phone call about smoke rising from a site and I am aware that a group or individual with permission, has already informed me that he/they will be in that area and possibly responsible. I can be reassured & not react. Our role as bushcrafter's is to promote, educate & encourage best practice. Improving relationships with land owners & organizations, is fundamental to increasing the provision of sites suitable for wild camping, as a sustainable activity.

 

[TomH]

As i've said, i totally understand the forums point of view and the owners responsibility to be seen to be politically and legally correct and that the promotion of illegal activities is not good for them.
As a responsible adult though and at the risk of sounding arrogant, i'll do what i see fit and be fully held responsible for any repercussions.
I would say that to letter of the law, most of the knives we all carry are illegal, full stop.


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[TomH]

Yet we have pages on here detailing how to get 'around' these laws.

As adults in a free, civilised society we have choices. We choose to carry illegal knives around, we may choose to drive too fast or smoke a joint. We may choose to bed down in wood.

All land ownership is theft anyway
So a communist once told me anyway.


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[didicoy]

All land ownership is theft anyway
So a communist once told me anyway.


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And ignorance is no defense in a court of law. Mate, I don't think 99% of the time it would be a problem, if you so chose to wild camp, under the circumstances you describe in your opening post. Its just how we evaluate it when we expand to the wider picture of wild camping. If it was a Romany Gypsy making a similar statement, you can clearly see where problems arise. Two issues could be demonstrated, a need and a right.

 

[Goatboy]

You know I'm glad we live where we do, in a relatively free and democratic society. It's lovely we have free speech and the enshrined belief that we should continue to do so. If you look back through the history of the British Isles there are many heroes and villains who have contributed to what we enjoy today. But there are rules, this forum has rules and certain folk work selflessly and hard to observe those rules and provide a wonderful environment within which we can play and verbally cavort to our hearts content. But there are always a few that despite nice asking pick away at a scab, nip the heals of the beast and generally cause trouble by abrading away at the few simple rules we do have. It's a public family forum and it cannot be seen to promote or condone illegal behaviour. Yes there are moral implications to certain rules but this isn't the forum to air them. So can't we all play nice and debate healthily but within the forums guidelines?

 

[Pterodaktyl]

Not the same - it's perfectly legal to carry most if not all of the knives discussed here, provided you have a legitimate reason for doing so. The majority of knife law discussions on here tend to focus around someone who was unlucky enough to have a run in with one of the minority of police officers who don't consider bushcraft to be a legitimate reason. Making people aware of their rights when stopped by the police while carrying out a legal activity is not the same as discussing or condoning something which is clearly illegal, even if many of the readers on here feel the laws regarding wild camping could be improved.

 

[TomH]

I think, for me, this is done.
I totally understand the forums point of view and the good aspects of this place far out-way those we may not agree with.
I really didn't mean to open a can of worms and definitely dont want to pick scabs.
Even though related to this forums subject, what we sometimes choose to do in our own lives shouldn't necessarily be broadcast here.


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[Stringmaker]

Even though related to this forums subject, what we sometimes choose to do in our own lives shouldn't necessarily be broadcast here.

That is it in a nutshell; well summarised.