On Eating Properly...

[fenix]

Really skint people cant afford freezers, probably couldn't afford to run one if they had it, they definitely don't have the cash to bulk buy. Its also difficult to bulk buy if you haven't got transport and live out of town. I grew up late 70s early 80s, in a council house in Kent. Being poor was
No car
No telephone
No washing machine (boiler and a mangle)
No TV (black and white one if you were lucky)
No freezer (pointless if you electricity runs out and you cant afford 50p)
No bus (cant afford the ticket)
No central heating or double glazing, most council houses around here had an open coal fire in the front room and one upstairs.

Being grateful for having a roof over your head, and thinking you weren't too badly off because some kid on a farm, not that far away slept on a mattress, on the floor with only his clothes for warmth at night. He was one of the few people who's life improved when he went to prison.

One old chap in the next village was born in the 1920s, as a youngster they couldn't afford meat. Probably why he was such a good poacher, and later on gamekeeper. His family's main source of meat was hedgerow and garden birds, best shot with a catapult that I have ever met.

 

[santaman2000]

Cheaper cuts are far tastier than the more tender, expensive cuts.

Frying? Not in this household. Panfrying (butter/olive oil mix) yes. Deepfrying - no......

Not fried? Not salted? No gravy? Sounds bland to me. (I like blackenbed meats but that involves heavy seasoning with salt as well as the hotter spices) That said, proper fried chicken (as in home made) is always "pan fried in a cast iron skillet. Nowadays it's either in veg oil or peanut oil, but back in the day it was bacon grease. I don't use quite the same seasoning mix as this video but salt is a must in any recipe. The pre soak in buttermilk is optional.

Yep, lots of cheaper (fat) cuts are indeed tastier: pigs feet, ribs, shanks, etc. But those aren'y healthy.

 

[santaman2000]

You haven't tasted my younger son's cooking!

Does he use salt?

I think that I do a good job of healthy eating. One very substantial part of my food must be the herbs and spices,
the mixes for seasonings that "dress up" any blah healthy dinner......

.......Braising cheaper cuts of meat. Smoker BBQ for 3 hours with apple wood. .....

Yep. None of which are "healthy." Braising lets the meat sit and soak in its own fat. Smoking or BBQ is carcinogenic. Do your spices and herbs include salt?

 

[santaman2000]

The US food industry excessive use of added fats, various sugars, flavourings and artificial colourantd has ruined your expectation of what is ‘good’.
Hence the North American obesity problem, now slowly invading the rest of the World!

Actually our obesity problem began when we stopped doing the traditional high fat home cooking and started eating fast food. Yeah it's easy to say burgers are high fat but they're nothing compared to traditional home fried chicken (was a several meal a week routine up until the 1970s) bacon & eggs, fried pork chops (also at least once or twice a week in the old pre fast food days) fried fish, oysters, and just about anything else that would fit into a skillet. Mashed potatoes? Absolutely; but only completely covered with good, fat gravy (just like the old days before any food "industry")

THAT is real, home made, traditional food. THAT tastes good.

Baked? Broiled? Unsalted? Not so good (if even edible).

 

[santaman2000]

Disregarding the socio economics.

I blame the TV for the decline in people’s cooking skills.
All those cookery programs, food travel programs
The food travel programs overload us with crazy ideas and detract from our own tried and tested food, developed over hundreds of years to suit our surroundingsclimate and food supply....

The foody shows I do watch are the ones with the old fashioned (traditional) fat fried, soaked in gravy ones showing recipes and techniques identical to my granparents and great aunts who learned to cook century before last.

 

[Robson Valley]

Braising doesn't necessarily mean cooking a big gob of fat. Plus I'll trim as lean as I can.
Don't do brisket in the BBQ. Most of the fat is rendered out of the meats and winds up in the drippings dish to be discarded.

I do apple wood smoke for the first 30 minutes.
Maybe some nitrosoamines in that smoke but too strong tastes like creosote.
Then the usual indirect plain heat for cooking for 90 minutes. 275F hardly carbonizes anything at all.
Maillard reaction but no carmelization of heaps of sugars in my foods.
Then I might wrap the meats in foil for another hour.

Spices and herbs are plant products.
What I like best is that I am in charge of exactly how much salt or sugar that I put in any food.

Some BBQ dry rubs have some salt, I've cut that back.
Others are 50% brown sugar. What I did was to cut all of those to less than 1/4 of the recipe sugar.
Everybody agrees.

Pomona's Universal Pectin is a 2-part gelling agent made in the USA from citrus peel.
It is so effective that you really can make low-sugar jellies.
I predict that you will be amazed how the fruit taste is unmasked by the low sugar.

 

[santaman2000]

All good BBQ rubs IME are between 1/3 and 1/2 salt. Brisket that isn't slow smoked (preferably in mesquite) is just wasted meat (unless it's processed into corned beef or pastrami)

NONE of these are healthy; just tasty. If it's salty, it ain't healthy. If it ain't salty, it ain't very good. If it's juicy, it's probably fatty and it ain't healthy. If it ain't juicy, it's dry, usually tough, and it ain't good.

Are there exceptions? Of course. Can you (or I or anybody else) change our tastes to appreciate the healthier choices? Of course; but not and still eat traditional foods

 

[Robson Valley]

Depends a lot on what you get used to eating. I watch people eat so much sugar and salt and wonder how they do it.
Over-salted and over-sugared BBQ rubs are over-rated. You can have the brisket all to yourself.
I'd prefer ribs (pork/beef/bison) or chickens.

Bison is 2g fat per 100g cooked meat. Chickens are 9g, beef is 11g fat/100g cooked meat.
I'll bet those Muntjac are no more than maybe 4g/100g.

There's so much fat rendered in the BBQ that I will actually eat chicken skin.

 

[Janne]

Fat is tasty. Sugar is tasty. Salt boosts taste.
But, you can get used to using less of these. Much less!
The only way is to cook from the base ingredients. Meat, fish, veg, starch.
No shortcuts. No semi prepared stuff.

Today, I browned ( one soup spoon of oil) a 1.2 kilo piece of beef, added root veg, water 1.5 liters, 1 tsp salt. Pressure cooker 1 hour.
1 liter stock. Made a Sukyiaki by adding two soup spoons of Shoyu (soy sauce) one teaspoon of Mirin, and one teaspoon of Ponzu.
Add various veg, add a bit of meat.
Tomorrow, I will make a white sauce using some stock, add Dill.
Boiled beef in Dill sauce with steamrd potatoes.
Remaining stock goes in a tea cup, to enjoy as a snack.

 

[santaman2000]

Fat is tasty. Sugar is tasty. Salt boosts taste.
But, you can get used to using less of these. Much less!
The only way is to cook from the base ingredients. Meat, fish, veg, starch.
No shortcuts. No semi prepared stuff.....

I agree you can get used to it. That said,our addiction to them has absolutely nothing to do with using prepared ingredients. Adding all that was common practice as far back my grandparents' time in the late 1800s (much longer I'm sure but that's as far back as I have witnesses too)

They began with meat they raised (or hunted or fished themselves) killed, and butchered themselves and vegetables they'd grown themselves. Salt the snot out of it, dredge it in flour, and pan fry it in bacon grease. Slather home made butter from home milked cows (high fat milk and butter) and home made jams (from scratch with loads of sugar and home grown figs, strawberries, blackberries, etc. or home boiled molasses from home grown cane) all over the home made breads. Vegetables that weren't fried were seasoned with loads of salt and bacon fat in the cooking liquid (or chunks of salt pork or a ham hock) You'd sop up the fatty liquid ("pot liquor") with either cornbread or a biscuit. Any starchy item (mashed potatoes made from home grown taters) or rice would be covered in home made gravy made from the drippings and grease left from frying the meat. A late night snack would be (and mine often still is) leftover cornbread soaked in cold milk

 

[snappingturtle]

Really skint people cant afford freezers, probably couldn't afford to run one if they had it, they definitely don't have the cash to bulk buy. Its also difficult to bulk buy if you haven't got transport and live out of town. I grew up late 70s early 80s, in a council house in Kent. Being poor was
No car
No telephone
No washing machine (boiler and a mangle)
No TV (black and white one if you were lucky)
No freezer (pointless if you electricity runs out and you cant afford 50p)
No bus (cant afford the ticket)
No central heating or double glazing, most council houses around here had an open coal fire in the front room and one upstairs.

And when the meter went, then its candles a book or radio and at a push the little B&W TV on a car battery to eek out the evening with! man hard to think its not that long ago, primitive times! we sometimes would get some help from a local bobby the station staff would chip in when they could and get us a box of food....they say we have more now but thinking about the local police and there kindness, no we are much poorer now......anyhow, spam egg and chip's anyone?

 

[santaman2000]

Depends a lot on what you get used to eating. I watch people eat so much sugar and salt and wonder how they do it.
Over-salted and over-sugared BBQ rubs are over-rated. You can have the brisket all to yourself.
I'd prefer ribs (pork/beef/bison) or chickens.

Bison is 2g fat per 100g cooked meat. Chickens are 9g, beef is 11g fat/100g cooked meat.
I'll bet those Muntjac are no more than maybe 4g/100g.

There's so much fat rendered in the BBQ that I will actually eat chicken skin.

I'm finding different figures on chicken in fat than that. Dark meat (the best tasting chicken) is 11g total fat:
https://screenshots.firefox.com/K2QKHHt4lsB3qTha/www.freedieting.com


But for white meat it's pretty close to your figure (actually slightly less than your 9g):

 

[Robson Valley]

That's the big difference with game. The fat is at a real premium as you know.
Just makes the cooking either a couple of minutes or several hours.
There's no in between.

Baked 6 potatoes. Halved 2 of them, scooped out and saved the guts.
Each got fresh green onion and fresh tomato dice. Dice Mexican salami
and 2 kinds of grated cheese. Good glug of Worcestershire in each.
Supposed to be S&P but I forgot. Bake 25 minutes 325F.
Supposed to have sour cream but fresh out.

Every potato I eat has to have some meaty thing and some veg thing cooked or salad.

 

[santaman2000]

That's the big difference with game. The fat is at a real premium as you know.
Just makes the cooking either a couple of minutes or several hours.
There's no in between.

Baked 6 potatoes. Halved 2 of them, scooped out and saved the guts.
Each got fresh green onion and fresh tomato dice. Dice Mexican salami
and 2 kinds of grated cheese. Good glug of Worcestershire in each.
Supposed to be S&P but I forgot. Bake 25 minutes 325F.
Supposed to have sour cream but fresh out.

Every potato I eat has to have some meaty thing and some veg thing cooked or salad.

Sound delicious'; but not really healthy. The cheese ads fats (and another carb on top of the carb the tater already is) the sour cream is that very fat we've been talking about. As would be butter or my favorite, gravy. Switching between them doesn't lower the fat, it just changes choice of fat. the same way an addict changes from beer to wine, or spirits, or some other drug than alcohol. It's still an addiction.

 

[Janne]

Yes, but real cheese and real butter is not bad for you! It is the additives you put in!

Us Scandinavians are butter, cheese, potato and flour based cultures.
Virtually no additives allowed.
Obesity? Increasing, but far from yours.
Fast food?
Yep, we love it!


check the ingredient list on your favourite bread.
Write it down here.
I will do the same. I will do a German made bread.

US food is filled with huge amounts of additives.
Fast food? Even worse!

 

[Robson Valley]

Natural fats in the diet are a metabolic necessity. I don't blink at the amount that I consume.
If I stuffed my guts with a dozen potato skins, 3 meals a day for 6 months,
half a quart of sewer cream on each one, you might have a valid argument.

SubWay uses a plasticizing polymer in their bread/buns. Same as used in air beds.
I'm surprised that there's any room for any potato at all in McDonald's French Fries.
Additives? There are dictionaries to hold them all. The powdered glass, the silicon dioxide flowing agent
in fast food powdered soups. What's with all the plastic in bottled water? Why bottled water?

That's my point about buying a freezer and bartering. Food diversity is important for us omnivores.
I'll agree that what I do would be really difficult to accomplish in any big city.

 

[KenThis]

Some sources are suggesting that it's sugars and not so much fats that are the main problem.
Our diets have always tended to have high fats, but ready supplies of processed sugars is a relatively recent thing.
Pity as I have rather a large sweet tooth.
Apparently it takes about a week without sugar to re-attune the tastebuds. I've never really managed it as its a miserable week and too easily undone.

 

[Janne]

Yes, having a sweet tooth is a pain. I love sweet.
I found a Spanish chocolate only sweetened with Stevia extract.

Of course, obesity is also a question of energy balance. Same in as out = no weight gain.

We need to fill our bellies properly, to feel hapoy.
Not with high energy food, but low energy food.
Large amounts of low energy food = plenty of other nutrients. Bonus.

 

[Robson Valley]

I'll agree about the sugar in just about everything. I don't have much of a sweet tooth. Black coffee. A little chocolate once a week is lots.
When you read the list of ingredients on a package or jar, they are supposed to be listed in order of concentration.
Supposed to be. Never heard of any monitoring (have you?) Exact proportions need not be revealed.

Take Lawry's Seasoned Salt for example. Salt is #1 (I'd hope so!) and Sugar is #2.
So I wrote to the company and asked why there was sugar in their Seasoned Salt product.
Got a reply extolling the quality and virtues of Lawry Products. BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS.
Not too tricky to mix my own. Chili powder, etc., and some humble plain salt.

Diversity but manage the caloric intake to your activity level.
You bush-bashing hill walkers need calories and the essential nutrition.
Take a sack of barley sugars, you earned it (can I have one?)

I've hob-nobbed with Canadian hunting guides and outfitters.
I felt kinda stupid when compared with the quantity of food those guys had to put away to do right by their clients.

Buy groceries. Plan for a week and stick to it, shop for it. Cook for yourselves. Not long before you get pretty good at it.
One winter was scratch cheese sauces (Alfredo, Mornay, Rafaello & 4-cheese).
Bought an Imperia pasta machine and did all kinds of things, another winter.

 

[Stew]

Some sources are suggesting that it's sugars and not so much fats that are the main problem.
Our diets have always tended to have high fats, but ready supplies of processed sugars is a relatively recent thing.
Pity as I have rather a large sweet tooth.
Apparently it takes about a week without sugar to re-attune the tastebuds. I've never really managed it as its a miserable week and too easily undone.

The sugar issue has been cited for a while - hard to change peopl's mindset though. You might find Gary Taubes interesting. He did a google talk on youtube some years back that you should watch and you'll get the whole jist. About an hour long.